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Any of you have experience using frame saver or other products?

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Any of you have experience using frame saver or other products?

Old 06-07-16, 10:51 PM
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djb
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Any of you have experience using frame saver or other products?

Hi, I'm usually in touring and occasionally in the mechanics section. I've bought a used steel bike that has not been ridden much, but has some little rust issues.
It's a 3 or 4 year old Surly Troll, and I plan to take the hollowtech bb off, partly to learn how to work on them, but also to make sure everything is well greased. I'm going to open up the hubs as well, so that I'm sure of the condition of all the bits and not have any guessing on grease quantity or contamination.
I figure I can pull the fork off and do a frame saver job while it's apart.

It seems that the spray cans of Frame Saver" are not easily found around here, so do you have personal experience using linseed oil, or other products?
No matter what I use, I realise I'll need to be careful of the bb threads and not let them get gummed up.

So from experience, are the canned products worth getting, or are things like Boeshield or linseed going to do a reasonable job?

The bike was kept in a damp barn like structure, there is just a bit of internal surface rust in the tubes, so I figure it's worth taking the time to do this now when I take things apart, and then never think of it again.

Any suggestions, comments or preferences would be good to read.
Thanks
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Old 06-07-16, 11:00 PM
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I haven't used the products you mentioned other than having received custom frames that were all FrameSaved buy the builders. I have used AMSoil Heavy Duty Metal Protection at ~$8/can good for at least three frames. I have seen no changes in any of the frames I have treated with the stuff. but I haven't spent a lot of time looking.

I'd use the stuff again. $8 for 3 frames? That's worth 10 minutes of AMS saleman time.

Ben
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Old 06-08-16, 03:02 AM
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Old 06-08-16, 04:02 AM
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+1 for the Amsoil Heavy Duty Metal Protector. I build frames and have used Framesaver and the Amsoil stuff. They are the same product in a different packages. The Amsoil stuff can be ordered direct from their website.

Its a messy job, so lay down plenty of old newspapers and do it outside or in the garage. Allow at least a day for the stuff to set up and stop dripping out the holes in the frame.
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Old 06-08-16, 06:07 AM
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Thanks for that recommendation, I'll look into it. Sometimes here in Canada there are products that are not available that you have in the states, so I'll start looking and asking around for that product.

As I've never done this before, are there any precautions you have to take with the fork and steerer headset races or whatever you call them?
Any concerns with paint?

Any tips or "don't do's" that stand out in your memory?

Thanks again
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Old 06-08-16, 06:53 AM
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Can't hurt. I put Framesaver in any steel frame that I have apart or mostly apart.
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Old 06-08-16, 06:57 AM
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Another vote for Amsoil HDMP. I have also used Weigel's Frame Saver and the two products are identical. They look alike, smell alike and work alike. The benefit of HDMP is you get a larger can for less money and it's available at many auto parts stores. NAPA stores in the US carry it but check auto parts stores in Canada.
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Old 06-08-16, 07:09 AM
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In my experience, Framesaver (and I assume HDMP since others say it's the same stuff) does not hurt paint. After spraying, it's easiest to wipe off the excess while still liquid. If you find some dried on later, I use some WD-40 on a rag to wipe it off.

Mike
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Old 06-08-16, 08:05 AM
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Thanks for the Amsoil stuff auto supply store recommendation and for the wipe while liquid tip.
I am replacing someone who is ill so will not have time probably for a while to actually physically do the project, but will do some calling for the product.

With a can of liquid, do you use a big sringe or something, or just pour it out of a smaller container into the frame openings?
Common sense seems that turning the frame around and around so it coats all over inside would be best?

After doing all the areas, would it be better to let the frame stand upside down in a work stand, bb area highest, to minimise stuff collecting in the shell threads?
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Old 06-08-16, 08:41 AM
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I use LPS-3 Rust Inhibitor. Not saying it's the best available, but it has worked well for me. I picked up 18" of small diameter tubing from a hobby shop that just slips over the red straw that comes with the product. It still creates a good fog and allows me to snake it into various areas of the frame for good coverage. I've never had a bit of rust inside my steel frames even though they get ridden under wet conditions and one is my winter bike on salty MN roads. The bikes do get good care and are stored in a garage.
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Old 06-08-16, 08:48 AM
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I've personally used frame saver. Worked well. It's thicker than you think.

A friend used boiled linseed oil. Her bike was sticky for a few days afterward, but it's fine now. Linseed oil works great at preventing rust, I'm sure it'll do a fine job.
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Old 06-08-16, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
With a can of liquid, do you use a big sringe or something, or just pour it out of a smaller container into the frame openings?
Amsoil HDMP and Weigle's Frame Saver come in aerosol cans. Spray it into the frame, then turn/twist/rotate the frame to move the liquid around inside and get coverage. The cans come with a small red straw, which you can use to spray into small openings like the top tube openings to the seat tube and head tube, or even really small ones like the brazing vents on seat stays.

Originally Posted by djb View Post
After doing all the areas, would it be better to let the frame stand upside down in a work stand, bb area highest, to minimise stuff collecting in the shell threads?
It's kind of hard to screw it up, no matter how you let the frame sit. I re-oriented the frame every once in a while to let the stuff trickle elsewhere and to try to prevent big deposits of it in places like the top tube or the bottom of the seat stays below the brazing vents. At the end of the day, I left the frame in a work stand right side up, letting the excess run out of the downtube and chain stays into the bottom bracket shell. I wiped some excess from the threads and let the remainder drip out of the bottom bracket cable guide screw hole or drain hole, whichever the particular bike has. So long as you don't let the frame sit unattended for a whole day or more, it's easy enough to wipe up excess with a paper towel. The stuff takes quite a while to completely dry.
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Old 06-08-16, 09:02 AM
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Shop I got my Pinarello CX frame from did that before They handed it over to Me, in 1990.
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Old 06-08-16, 09:27 AM
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...available in the paint department of any Home Depot (its one great advantage over other products). Comes with a little red tube to spray into stay holes and other recesses. Recommended to me by a local framebuilder here. Let it dry a day or two before you reassemble the bike.
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Old 06-08-16, 10:18 AM
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thanks a lot everyone for all the comments and further suggestions.
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Old 06-08-16, 09:14 PM
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I use Boeshield. Have no reason to believe it won't work well. I'm thinking the marine and aeronautics industries are mature enough to produce a quality product for the job.
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Old 06-09-16, 06:48 AM
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You can find Maxima Chain Wax at most motorcycle shops and it's very similar stuff to Pro Gold Frame Protector.
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Old 06-09-16, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Kopsis View Post
You can find Maxima Chain Wax at most motorcycle shops and it's very similar stuff to Pro Gold Frame Protector.
Amsoil HDMP is also recommended as a motorcycle chain lube as well as a rust preventative coating so it may be the same or very similar product.
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Old 06-09-16, 12:49 PM
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An initial call to an automotive supply place I know unfortunately came up with nothing. They had heard of it, but have never stocked it.
I also unfortunately saw on the Amsoil site an ominous "**Not Available in Canada" sentence....
Will keep on trying as I'd prefer to use something that has been used with experience by some of you.
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Old 06-09-16, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by GravelMN View Post
I use LPS-3 Rust Inhibitor. Not saying it's the best available, but it has worked well for me. I picked up 18" of small diameter tubing from a hobby shop that just slips over the red straw that comes with the product. It still creates a good fog and allows me to snake it into various areas of the frame for good coverage. I've never had a bit of rust inside my steel frames even though they get ridden under wet conditions and one is my winter bike on salty MN roads. The bikes do get good care and are stored in a garage.
That's what I use as well. Seems to be about the same stuff as Frame Saver, HDMP, and all the rest (just make sure you get LPS-3. LPS-1 and LPS-2 are different). A lot of aviation supply houses sell it, as apparently it's popular for small plane fuselages, so how bad could it be. I got my last can on Amazon for around $12, I think, though if the Rust-oleum product mentioned earlier is the same stuff maybe I'll try that next.

The hobby shop tubing sounds like a great idea. I've always thought it would be great if someone made something like that, but with a nozzle at the end that produced a very wide (or even annular) spray pattern. Then you could just snake it down a tube, press the button, and draw it out slowly. Done.

FYI, here's an old roundup review of a few different products, targeted to boating applications. LPS-3, CRC Heavy Duty, and a couple of others finished at the top.

Test of Corrosion Inhibitor Sprays - The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum
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Old 06-09-16, 03:41 PM
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Thanks for that, if the other one is bust, at least I have some options, and I like the idea of some added tubing to feed down the larger openings.

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Old 06-09-16, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
I also unfortunately saw on the Amsoil site an ominous "**Not Available in Canada" sentence....
Odd. The Amsoil web site actually lists a number of retail stores in the Montreal area. I used the "Find Amsoil near you" button on the top of the page and entered 12919, the ZIP (postal) code for Champlain, NY since it's nearby.

<EDIT> Ahhh... I found the "not available in Canada" disclaimer and it's specifically for HDMP. Well, if you can't find alternatives, the U.S. border's only a few miles, er kilometers, south. ;-)

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Old 06-09-16, 05:00 PM
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Experience using Frame Saver on a frame or two, sure. Evidence that it has prevented or slowed internal rust in the couple of years since? Ehhh, I'll get back to you.
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Old 06-09-16, 06:51 PM
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Re popping over the border, may do that if it works out going to do some biking in Vermont or something , and if I could get it, we'll see.

Thanks though for looking.
In the end, whatever I use I figure will be good for the frame because of the light rusting it has here and there, and like I said, I'm taking the bb etc off anyway at some point to give it a good once over of all grease points.
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Old 06-09-16, 09:14 PM
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Do add a drain hole in the BB shell if there isn't one already there. That can make a big difference especially for bearing life.
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