bassogap

If the frame doesn't have them, the frame is of no real interest....unless it is VERY old...

jpaschall

tricky 

Depends on what you are interested in.

iab

IDK, that was your 666th post. It is the post of the Deveel. Can't be right.

On the other hand, most my bikes don't have forged dropouts. They must suck.

randyjawa 

These days, if I had to choose between forged drops and old, old would generally win...

ThermionicScott 

If a beer can be seen through easily, it is of no real interest....unless the name is VERY hard to pronounce...

Hudson308 

I would be VERY interested in a beer can I could see through!

There was a time when I was only really interested in bikes that had dropout adjusters and alloy cotterless cranks. I've since realized that there are many, many fascinating bikes that don't fit within those parameters.

ThermionicScott 

(I meant, if it's possible to see through the beer itself, but that's pretty funny.)

rustystrings61 

You know that part you need to complete your latest project? You already sold it off for half what another one will cost you, convinced you would never ever find a use for it.

tricky 

Ha! You're right. Maybe I should have been meaner, snarkier or something more suiting the mark of the beast... Call me superstitious, but posting to get off of that number though!

John E

Stamped dropouts are less likely to crack. Otto Cap came up with the elegant solution of brazing C-shaped fittings onto ornate stamped dropouts, to provide most of the benefits of forged dropouts.

dweenk

If you are saying that forged dropouts are more brittle, I would agree. Stamped dropouts should be more tolerant of stress, and can be made to look better than the low end examples. But they don't look as elegant.

lostarchitect 

It's one factor I look at when evaluating frame quality, but not the only one.

It's a useful shorthand when giving advice to friends who don't know much about bikes, but are looking for a vintage bike on craigslist.

USAZorro

Is 1971 really considered old here? My Competition doesn't have forged dropouts, and frankly, I don't notice any difference while riding. That said, the stereotyping is generally the truth - just not as hard and fast as say... bikes that have turkey levers or stem shifters.

bikemig 

Hey, I'm rebuilding a bike with turkey levers--a mid 70s Sekine SHS 271--which has a chromed rear triangle and fork, shimano forged drop outs, and has a full tange chrome moly frameset

Should I ditch the turkey levers because the bike won't get any love on CL if I build it up with all original equipment,

obrentharris 

... and then we have the Paramounts that came from the factory with both turkey levers and stem shifters! (though, to be fair, I think they were optional equipment)
Brent

dddd

Did someone mention turkey levers, stamped dropouts and claw-hangers?

This old 10-speed (still @ only ten) has been my biggest mileage accumulator in my diverse fleet.

It came with a style that I liked and turned out to have versatile geometry, so for $80 I drove down to the big city, brought it back and overhauled it.
I admit that it was me who installed the turkey levers, the better for safer rolling recovery on the bar tops between pulls at the front with such a long-reaching front end.

Hard to be certain, but the dropouts look to be welded, not even brazed.
If I was at or near frame-breaking weight, I definitely would have passed on it.

bassogap

I just started this post because some here will post pictures of an old hi-tensile steel frame that needs a total redo...and I just don't understand putting so much time and money into redoing a Kia...why not pick out an old BMW that needs work.

I'm not saying you can't have fun on a cheap bike...of course not...but something that wasn't very valued or desired when it was new isn't going to get any better 30 years later...

bikemig 

I think you get bonus points in the afterlife for riding with suicide levers, delrin derailleurs, and a cottered crank. Very pretty bike btw. There's a lot to be said for the geometry of older bikes; they have generous clearance for reasonably fat tires.

jimmuller 

"Transparent aluminum?"

"Aye. Would that be worth something you, laddie?"

dweenk

I do remember a guy in college named A. R. (protecting myself from possible litigation) who would open a can of beer, tilt it up to his mouth, and stab the bottom of the can with a knife to make it flow faster. I did not see him at graduation.

That would allow you to see through the aluminum can however.

dddd

I remember back when I used to find these exact bikes at Goodwill and at garage sales, and a buddy even pulled one from a dumpster.
There was something about their vintage/antique style, and I was disappointed that they all seemed to be one size too small for me to ride.

I was therefore surprised to finally one day find a larger one pictured on Sacramento Craigslist, even too large by my initial estimation. I don't do paint, so a bike with good paint/graphics and box lining (and below any investment risk threshold) is always on my radar, so I took the chance on the fit and geometry and was later rewarded when it all came together with a 4cm-longer stem and some better alloy wheels.

But the point I was trying to make was that the basic dropout fabrication method was not that important to me in the grand scheme of things. I've bought nicer bikes (that originally sold for many times the $60 or so that this one first sold for) but which still had a brazed seatstay endcap start peeling off from the stresses of normal use.

One thing about mass-production combined with very stale/static design and production lines is that the vendor has a much easier time keeping tabs on quality control, by virtue of the data provided by sheer numbers of frames, and with virtually no annual changes. To wit, this model sold for more than ten years virtually unchanged, in response to the sales success of the Schwinn Varsity back in 1961 or so, and Sears sold additional millions of them under several of their own labels.

While various brand's stamped dropouts may all seem somewhat alike in their 2D simplicity, their dimensions/material/processing are key variables that allow a mindful producer to achieve as great reliability as they feel is needed.

My rear Delrin derailer survives to this day minus it's hi-limit screw boss (broken in a violent tip-over) but with a taut cable sufficing.
The front mech was retired only this year when the typical crack in it's body/clamp finally became too gaping to ignore.


I sort of chumped out when my (five years older) Sears-branded one needed derailers, when I installed newer metal mechs.

It gets by with slightly different stamped rear dropouts, a more-traditional brazing to the dropouts, and with front dropouts formed into the fork tubing itself.

Same geometry, but with, er, "subtle" 1960's Sears styling graphics. OK, it's styling is odd. But well worth the effort in rebuilding it, including replacing all of the rusted spokes during rim replacement after being rear-ended by a large fellow cyclist.



Showing this one with the older dropouts and brazed joinery method:

bassogap

I agree about the Simplex gear...I rode one hard for a year when I was a teen...Never had a problem.

Of course, it's not the dropouts themselves that are significant...But I've very rarely seen a cro-molly frame without nice dropouts...

noobinsf 

I kinda like mine, and it was free. Learned a lot and didn't worry about messing up a notable bike.

USAZorro

= "I'm not taking myself seriously by saying this". It's true that I'm not a fan of either the extensions or stem shifters, but I've had bikes with both, and I realize there are exceptions to nearly every "rule". Their presence on bicycles sold in North America speaks more to what people were looking for than the quality of the bike.

I do remember my Uncle's (the one who had the bike shop) admonishment to never rely on the extensions if I needed to make a panic stop. (I think it was a U-08) Has stuck with me for 40+ years now.