Sturmey Archer Geared Hub Noise
05-13-13, 02:03 AM
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Sturmey Archer Geared Hub Noise
Hi,
I have recently converted a fixed gear into a geared bike using a SA, 5 speeds. I researched on this forum that a ticking sound is normal on these hubs, which I do hear quite normally. But I realized that when I go really fast, downhill, on the highest gear, I hear a louder ratcheting noise that is different than the normal ticking sound. I also noticed that this noise is apparent when pedaling backwards while going fast enough. Is this normal?
Thanks,
Horace
I have recently converted a fixed gear into a geared bike using a SA, 5 speeds. I researched on this forum that a ticking sound is normal on these hubs, which I do hear quite normally. But I realized that when I go really fast, downhill, on the highest gear, I hear a louder ratcheting noise that is different than the normal ticking sound. I also noticed that this noise is apparent when pedaling backwards while going fast enough. Is this normal?
Thanks,
Horace
05-13-13, 02:37 AM
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If it's the noise I think it is, and doesn't happen except when coasting or backpedalling, it's not mean to happen, and I though it was only the 3-speeds that did it, but it's not dangerous, only annoying.
As far as I can tell, what happens is that inside the new-model hubs, the clutch gets pushed out by the pins it transfers drive to in high gear and then forced back in by its spring, because it's shaped in such a way that if the planet cage that it drives in high gear is trying to turn forward faster than the clutch is, that'll happen as it rides up on each set of pins and then ratchets back down. The planet cage has pawls on it that engage the inside of the hub shell, and because SA hubs are now grease-lubricated, those pawls have quite a bit of drag - enough to exert the forward torque on the planet cage to make it rotate forward. This is a heck of a lot easier to explain with the hub in bits in my hand.
This is conditional on it being a modern hub, the older designs didn't do it.
I cured one of mine of the habit by converting it to oil lubrication, which reduced the drag enough that it stopped, but cleaning excess grease off the ratchet face and pawls on the planet cage might work.
As far as I can tell, what happens is that inside the new-model hubs, the clutch gets pushed out by the pins it transfers drive to in high gear and then forced back in by its spring, because it's shaped in such a way that if the planet cage that it drives in high gear is trying to turn forward faster than the clutch is, that'll happen as it rides up on each set of pins and then ratchets back down. The planet cage has pawls on it that engage the inside of the hub shell, and because SA hubs are now grease-lubricated, those pawls have quite a bit of drag - enough to exert the forward torque on the planet cage to make it rotate forward. This is a heck of a lot easier to explain with the hub in bits in my hand.
This is conditional on it being a modern hub, the older designs didn't do it.
I cured one of mine of the habit by converting it to oil lubrication, which reduced the drag enough that it stopped, but cleaning excess grease off the ratchet face and pawls on the planet cage might work.
05-13-13, 03:53 PM
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If the noise bothers you coasting down hill, shift it to 1st or 2nd while coasting, it will run a lot quieter. This is because the ring gear pawls are retracted and not ratcheting on the hub shell in those gears.
When you're back on the flat, upshift to where you want to be and go.
The planet cage pawls will always ratchet when you coast, in all gears, but they are somewhat quieter than the ring gear pawls.
This video might make your head spin, but it explains the workings, and why it makes the sounds it does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Z0H2U6ejs
When you're back on the flat, upshift to where you want to be and go.
The planet cage pawls will always ratchet when you coast, in all gears, but they are somewhat quieter than the ring gear pawls.
This video might make your head spin, but it explains the workings, and why it makes the sounds it does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Z0H2U6ejs
05-13-13, 06:49 PM
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I have a modern version of this SA 5 speed hub. The rare times that I have used the top gear I have always been pedaling and have never noticed any strange noise. I will give it a try coasting tomorrow morning.
I have about 1500 miles on this hub so far and it seems to have broken in quite nicely. The only gripe is that the ratio range is way too wide for me. I use the middle three gears unless I just want to reassure myself that I actually have a 5 speed hub.
I have about 1500 miles on this hub so far and it seems to have broken in quite nicely. The only gripe is that the ratio range is way too wide for me. I use the middle three gears unless I just want to reassure myself that I actually have a 5 speed hub.
05-14-13, 10:38 AM
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Well I gave coasting in top gear a try this morning and had no noise other than a quite pawl noise. Pedaling backwards caused the sort of noise you described but it didn't sound all that bad. I get the same noise in the middle gear occasionally but it goes away when I fiddle with the shifter. The hub seems to be somewhat sensitive to shift cable tension so you may want to try to mess with that - may cure your noise.
05-14-13, 02:49 PM
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The sound you hear when pedaling backwards is produced by an entirely different set of pawls, that being the pawls on the driver which drives the ring gear.
Older designs,(pre NIG models) did not have these pawls.
Older designs,(pre NIG models) did not have these pawls.
05-14-13, 04:01 PM
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I have recently converted a fixed gear into a geared bike
11-24-19, 08:20 AM
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Noise from S-RF5 (W) hub
Hi everyone,
Bumping this thread up because I have some noise relevant to the topic. I have a new S-RF5(W) hub installed on a Brompton and while it shifts and rolls well, I'm getting a bad-sounding noise that I can't figure out! I took it to the shop and had the hub re-lubed but I can't seem to get rid of it. It's driving me nuts! I took a recording of it earlier, it only comes out when I'm riding and not when I'm pushing the bike around:
(Will post the sound when I hit 10 posts, boo!)
Any idea what it could be? I'll try pouring some oil down the axle to see if that does the trick.
Bumping this thread up because I have some noise relevant to the topic. I have a new S-RF5(W) hub installed on a Brompton and while it shifts and rolls well, I'm getting a bad-sounding noise that I can't figure out! I took it to the shop and had the hub re-lubed but I can't seem to get rid of it. It's driving me nuts! I took a recording of it earlier, it only comes out when I'm riding and not when I'm pushing the bike around:
(Will post the sound when I hit 10 posts, boo!)
Any idea what it could be? I'll try pouring some oil down the axle to see if that does the trick.
11-25-19, 05:55 PM
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Hi b0bert. A few questions in anticipation of your recording:
1) How did the shop re-lube it? These hubs don't have oiling ports, but are instead lubed with NGLI 00 grease. In order to relube, the shop would have had to remove the internal and thus would have been able to inspect for anything out of sorts. If they did remove the internal, did they say anything about what they found? If they didn't remove the internal, then they didn't re-lube it.
2) Does the noise occur in any particular gear?
3) Are there any other conditions of use that seem to cause the noise?
I have the same hub, but in drum brake configuration.
1) How did the shop re-lube it? These hubs don't have oiling ports, but are instead lubed with NGLI 00 grease. In order to relube, the shop would have had to remove the internal and thus would have been able to inspect for anything out of sorts. If they did remove the internal, did they say anything about what they found? If they didn't remove the internal, then they didn't re-lube it.
2) Does the noise occur in any particular gear?
3) Are there any other conditions of use that seem to cause the noise?
I have the same hub, but in drum brake configuration.
