jhan

I'm in the market for a new commuter bike. I've been using an aluminum Cannondale CAAD 8 with a backpack for several years, but I would like to move to a steel bike with panniers for a smoother ride. I've been thinking about the surly cross check based on the good reviews but recently came across some good posts about the salsa vaya. However, I can't seem to find too many reviews of this bike.

My primary purpose will be commuting on decent roads and bike paths, 15 miles each way. One day, I'd like to do a little light touring, but don't know when I will ever get the time to do it (3 small kids) so that is a pipe dream rather than a realistic use of the bike.

Can anyone provide any feedback on the bike, whether you would recommend the bar end shifters or brifters, and what size tires you are running. I'm 5'10'' with a 31 inch inseam. I usually ride between a 54 and 56, on a horizontal top tube bike. Any thoughts on sizing?

My local bike shops are all sold out so I can't test ride one until the 2012s come in. Any upgrades recommended if i buy the stock bicycle?

thanks

SlimRider

You can't go wrong with either the Surly Crosscheck or the Salsa Vaya IMHO. However, at a less expensive price point, you should also give the Jamis Aurora and Bosanova a try, as well.

- Slim

PS.

Apex componentry will be more accomodating for the hills with the Vaya2...

tarwheel 

I hate to be one of those guys who says "do a search," but in this case it is the best answer. There have been a bunch of threads on this forum about the Vaya with some nice photos of builds and ride reports. Do an advanced search for Vaya in the commuting forum, choosing search titles, and you will find all the info you need to know.

simmonsgc

Well, it looks like I'm your guy...I'm 5'10", 31 inseam. Like you, I was shopping for a bomb-proof commuter/light touring bike. My local shop was not a "stocking dealer" so I couldn't buy one locally. I wound up finding a 2010 from a shop on the west coast (I live in NC), which I suppose is fine, since I preferred the "upside brown" to the new orange that they offer with the complete builds. Anyway, on to address your questions.

Feedback on the bike: Well, mine is a stock-built 2010, except I changed the tires to 32mm Pasela TourGuards right outta the box. I've been riding the crap out of it since last March, and it has not given me a moment's trouble. I've used it for daily commuting (12 miles round trip), and for weekend "day rides" on mixed surfaces (paved roads and long stretches of dirt as well). It's proven solid, stable, and reliable.

Bar-ends/brifters: Mine has the Tiagra build, and the brifters work fine for me. This decision is not so much about the shifter, but about how the shifter relates to how you plan to use the bike. I'm sure a Vaya would be great with some nice Silvers or even classic Suntour racheting barcons on it (if you decide to go the friction route, that is). [NOTE: Just checked the Salsa site, and I wasn't even aware they are offering a Vaya 2 and a Vaya 3 now. Cool that you can opt for a stock triple with bar-ends if that's your thing].

Tire size: Like I said, Panaracer Pasela TG's in 32mm, still with plenty of room for the VO fenders I added.

Thoughts on sizing: There were no Vayas anywhere near me to try, but I *really* lucked up in that a tech at my LBS bought a frame-only Vaya to build up for himself. He bought a 55, and was kind enough to let me try it when I was shopping. The shop owner checked me out on it, and suggested I get the 54, and that has proven to be a great decision. The 55 was just the slightest bit long in the top tube for me, and I was going for comfort with this purchase. Having ridden the 54 for almost a year, I'm very happy with the size. Beware one thing, though. These bikes are compact in terms of the geometry (steer tube angle + 700c wheels + 170mm cranks + fenders = TOE OVERLAP). I have to tell my buddies who want to try my bike to be careful of it.

Changes from the stock build: Tough to say on that...they've switched to SRAM stuff from the Shimano, yes? I'd say that the stock build from 2010 has worked very well for me. One other thought relates to the stock compact double (36/50). I live in the mountains of western NC, and I do a lot of weekend day rides on the backroads up up here...with some pretty large climbs. At first, that compact double was killing me in that setting-- on long dirt road climbs or paved road switch-backs up and over a tall ridge -- but I think my fitness has improved and it's better now (see the famous Rule #5). So, the only substantial change I might suggest you look at is, if you are thinking about serious touring under load in hilly terrain, consider a triple crank to protect yourself. For my commutes, I never come off the big ring, so the double is plenty. Your commute may vary.

All that being said, the Vaya was a big purchase for me, but I have really enjoyed mine. Turns out I ride more, I'm in better shape, and a lot of other things follow from that. Pretty good return from a bike purchase. Of course, you can get the same return from a lot of other bikes, too. Best of luck with your purchase, whatever you settle on, and I hope that helps.

Since we're all about the pics, here's a shot of my Vaya in sleek commuter mode (before I added rack/bags).

tjspiel

Both the Crosscheck and the Vaya have their loyal followings. The Vaya looks like it has a geometry closer to that of a touring bike while the CC's geometry is a bit sportier.

- Vaya has disc brakes and brifters.
- CC has cantis and barends though you could certainly build one up with brifters if you wanted.

If you're riding in a wet climate, the disc brakes might be a big advantage. Otherwise I'd recommend waiting until you can test ride them.

As far as barends vs. brifters go, there are pros and cons. One of my bikes has barend shifters and the other Campy Ergos. They both work fine. Having brifters is slightly more convenient. I don't really like the way Shimano STIs are set up but again, they work fine. It takes a bit of getting used to having shifting and braking combined into one lever. The Vayas used to have SRAM shifters? If so, it's too bad they went with Shimano on the newer models.

Terry66

I owned both the CC and the Vaya and ended up selling the CC because I never rode it. With the shorter head tube and higher BB, it was a good all purpose bike, but not so much what I was looking for in a commuter/touring bike. Having ridden both for long distances, I can’t imagine anyone choosing the feel of the CC over the Vaya…..but I realize we’re all different.

I would strongly suggest buying the Vaya. It really is an amazing bike. I use it as an urban commuter, touring bike and have even done some single track. I am right at 5’11” and I went with a 56cm frame. In hindsight, I think a 55 “might” have been slightly better, but a shorter stem and my 56cm is fantastic….Even after days in the saddle, the bike is super comfortable. I have Panaracer Pacela 700X32, WTB All Terrain 700X37 and Conti Tour Ride 700X42. They all fit just fine with fenders. I thought the disk brakes were a bit deal, but for my riding, it really wasn’t a huge benefit.

I went with 105 triple components/brifters. It wasn't a big decision for me as I took them from a donor bike. They do a decent job and I have no complaints, so it doesn't make sense to change anything at this point.

For touring, the bike handles fairly well….but I don’t have much to compare it to. I rode my friend’s LHT for a short distance and Vaya was at least comparable when fully loaded. I would suspect the Trucker was a bit better touring bike, but the Vaya is probably better as a commuter.

A couple of pics….

simmonsgc

Nice bike. That a triple?

jdefran

What front rack and bag is that?

Yes, Terry mentioned 105 tripe above.

simmonsgc

Whoops, yep. He said triple. Thanks. Unless I'm mistaken that looks like the Salsa "Minimalist" rack.

Terry66

Yep...it is a Salsa Minimalist rack. The bag is a Transit bag I picked up at my LBS for like $20.

I have since added a Salsa Down Under front rack for panniers and also upgraded to a Salsa Wanderlust rear rack.

The triple is really nice when fully loaded. I mean you could certainly get by without, but it makes is nice when you're trying to get a 70+lbs bike up to speed. The crank is the one piece of the drivetrain that I bought new. The donor trek bike had a silver crank but I really wanted black. I sold the silver and found a nice deal on a new black on ebay.

Hey Simmons....what fenders are those? very sleek looking....nice!

amgarcia

I love my Cross-Check, but I can't say I've ever ridden much else of "quality". You can't go wrong with the Vaya.

It all depends if you want more touring or sport-touring. There are many options.

himespau 

I was looking at (and lusting for) a vaya on clearance a year or two ago, but just couldn't justify it. Looks like a really nice bike though.

jdefran

I will check the racks out.

The fenders are VO.

fietsbob

QBP gets Both Surly&Salsa Made, TW contract, not sure what he differences are.
except for the obvious ones...
The CC as proper cross rig would, has a horizontal TT, looks like
the Vaya obviously, has a sloping one..

jhan

Thanks for the input everyone, I really like the look of the charcoal frame with red handle bar tape. Since my primary purpose will be urban commuting, it looks like the vaya might be the choice for me. I will have to wait for the 2012 versions to come in to test ride one. Would certainly like to hear from other vaya owners while I patiently wait and tell myself that it will be worth it.

simmonsgc

Yep, velo orange hammered aluminum (45's I think). They give the vaya a strangely frenchy feel. I have to say, everyone who sees the bike mentions the fenders first.

canyoneagle

The Salsa or Surly are great bikes.
Just to throw out another option (at a slight cost increase):
Singular Peregrine ($725 frame/fork) - really classy frame with tons of flexibility from skinny tires to 2.0". discs or cantis.

Confederate

I'm in the process of buying a Vaya. I took it out on a test ride and immediately knew that it was the one. I'm 5'10" and have about a 30-31" inseam. I opted for a 56, and I think I will still put a slightly longer stem on it. I really liked the toptube length of the 57, but I didn't have enough standover clearance. Mine will have the brifters. I'm just not a fan of bar-end shifters, despite the advantages they offer in some areas.

I am upgrading the brakes. It comes with BB5s. I'm going to have the shop switch them over to BB7s. I also think I'm going to go with skinnier tires, but I'm not yet sure which make/model. I've already got a set of Schwalbe Marathon Duremes in 40mm, which would perform the same role of the stock 42mm Contis. So I'm going to look at getting something in the 32-35mm range that are built more for speed than touring.

I'll need to spend some time on my local hills before I can say what I think about the gearing. The lowest gear (with the Apex set-up) is about 29 gear inches. My current commuter goes down to about 20. I seldom go lower than the next-to-lowest gear, which is about 24 gear inches, but I do find myself that low on some of my local hills. I hope 29 will do. Otherwise I may be rethinking my cranks in about a year.

Andy_K 

I've never ridden a Vaya, but I saw one in a local shop and it's a beautiful bike. Honestly, pictures just don't do it justice.

I've got a Cross Check, and I've taken it on a couple of 100 mile rides and done a lot of commuting with it. I do think the Vaya geometry is probably better suited to your purposes. You'll notice most of the pictures of Cross Checks on this forum show either a lot of spacers on the steerer or a rising stem or both. This is a way of overcoming the Cross Check's short head tube to give it a more comfortable ride, which the Vaya has out of the box. The Vaya probably weighs in a couple of pounds heavier than the Cross Check, but that shouldn't matter for your purposes. We're probably talking about 26 pounds vs. 24 pounds.

Terry66

Yep, skinnier tires help the Vaya. 32s make a great alternative. With 32 pacelas, I can move along rather nicely.

Andy....I loved my CC. It was a great bike. I think you hit the nail on the head about the weight. The Vaya is a bit heavier also handles a little more sluggish than the CC....but it's all about tradeoffs I guess.

pityr

Have you looked at the Trek Portland or Kona ***** Inc? Both are similar to the Vaya and are very nice as well. This year's ***** is very nice and comes with a full 105 except for the Ultegra RD. Both would fit your needs unless you really want a front rack. Although for light touring (if you ever get around to doing it) do you really need one?

I have about 8k miles on my 2011 ***** and love it. Its been a fantastic commuter/all arounder

Terry66

I looked at the ***** Inc. Nice looking bike, but I thought the largest tires you could run is 28c? I have a SS and a road bike so for my commuter/tourer, I wanted fatter tires and more rack mounts. I don't think I've had anything smaller than 32s on it since I got it. The geometry on the Kona is very similar to the Vaya though.

MileHighMark

I have a 57cm Vaya, and it can clear 40mm tires easily. It's a fantastic bike, and one of my all-time favorites. Perfectly capable on-road and off-road.

pityr

Yeah, on the *****'s Xero wheels I don't think your going to put anything bigger than a 28. They are a true road rim with a 130mm hub. The frame itself will take a larger tire but hub/wheel options are limited since most disc hubs are 135mm. I really do like the look of these Vaya's. Such nice looking bikes.

jhan

I love the charcoal frame, but it appears that it only comes with the bar ends shifters. I hate the look of the bar end shifter cables coming out in big loops from the end of the handlebars. I like a nice clean field around the handle bars. Can the cables be hidden underneath the bar tape without affecting the performance. I guess not or otherwise they would have done it already. Otherwise I will be putting on a Brooks b17 and speed play frogs like the one pictured above. I can't wait.