2bridges1bike

Does anyone have a tubeless 406 setup on their folder? Which wheels and tires are you using? How much weight did you save and how is the performance?

kidshibuya

Does such a thing even exist? I would love tubeless 451, but there is almost nothing made for 20inch.

2bridges1bike

check out these rims

https://www.smcbike.com/products/car...rim-wheel.html

Schwalbe also makes a 20” tubeless tire.

I’ve found some reviews on this stuff for use in BMX but nothing for commuting or touring

kidshibuya

Got a link to a tubeless 20inch tyre?

2bridges1bike

Don’t have a link but pretty sure the Schwalbe pro one comes in a 20” size

tcs

Pro One in 28mm wide, G-One Speed in 40mm wide.

https://www.schwalbetires.com/

Velocity offers their A23 'tubeless ready' rim in 406.

Numerozero

Alienation makes tubeless compatible rims and tires.

Tires: Tires ? Alienation Bicycle Components

Rims: TCS Malice ? Alienation Bicycle Components

Only 28-hole 406 rim that I know of with a 23mm internal rim width.

Found it while looking for a wider rim for the S-A X-RF8(W) internal gear hub for my Downtube 8FH (which is 28 holes) to better mount 55-406 Big Bens.

2bridges1bike

Did you order the rims? Do let us know your thoughts if you go tubeless!

Numerozero

No, not yet. Was going to last summer but nobody had them in stock. Now they are, but holding off as I’m quite happy with 50-406 Big Apples on the stock 19C rims.

sleepycactus

If you get pinch flats and don’t want to increase your tire pressure (to avoid that) tubeless is something to consider. There is no tube to pinch.

Otherwise I fail to see any benefit, especially with 20” tires. First, there just aren’t many compatible tires and rims out there in that size. Alienation makes rims and tires for 20” tubeless but if you go that route you are stuck with having to use their stuff. And the rim drilling forces you to one spoke pattern when building the wheel.

So fine, you go to all that trouble, and for what? A bit lighter wheel maybe, and more maintenance (in the form of dealing with dried sealant every few months) and a more difficult repair. So what do you do to fix a flat out in the woods? Put a tube in it. Isn’t it easier to run tubes in the first place, and avoid all the tubeless bother? I think yes.

Tubeless is hailed as the self sealing alternative, but sealants work fine inside of tubes too. And they won’t spray all over you when the tire is slashed. Sure, you save the weight of a tube with a tubeless setup, but you still have a wave of sealant washing around inside your tire constantly. It will not feel like technological tailwind you are hoping for.

Consider running a smaller tube in your tire, like a 1.2" or 1.5" tube in a 2.1" tire. That can cut down weight and promote a supple tire feel. Put some sealant in it if you ride in thorny places. My opinion is that this tubeless stuff is way overhyped.

Numerozero

For those sticking with tubes, but want to save weight, the Tubolito tubes are only 50 grams:

https://www.tubolito.com/en/product/tubo-bmx/

Compare to Schwalbe SV7 at 145 grams. Even the lighter SV7A are at 95 grams. So, a quick way to save almost 100 grams.

rickybails

I've been running tubeless on my 406-wheeled folding bike for a few years now. I was lucky to get hold of a pair of 20" stans rimstrips 4-5 years ago (I don't think you can get them any more - but you don't need them any more either) and ran Kojaks tubeless on my kinetix pro wheelset (the one with not enough spokes). You only need stans rimstrips to convert non-tubeless tyres (like kojaks) but now you can get tubeless 406 tyres.

The Kojaks were great - the fastest 406 tyre at the time, and were even better tubeless. Last year I switched to Schwalbe pro one tyres and they are faster and comfier. The ride quality is superb (at least at the 60 psi I run them at). I went on a long ride recently with some roady friends all on carbon-wheeled regular big-wheeled bikes (none of them tubeless) and my bike was definitely rolling better and I didn't have to swerve for bumps in the road - the tyres soaked up the bumps in a wonderfully smooth way. Tubeless tyres give you some free suspension (no weight or rolling resistance penalty)- they absorbs bumps in the road without slowing you down.

I've been running tubeless on my MTB for 20 years now and really don't recognise any of the arguments against tubeless listed by sleepycactus previously (I suspect they haven't used them day-to-day for any length of time). Self-sealing tubes are not the same as tubeless tyres running sealant. Tubes stretch, so a small hole can easily stretch wider to let more air out. tyre carcasses do not stretch, so after the sealant has sealed a puncture (which usually happens in a few seconds) the hole will not stretch any further and that hole is sealed for good. (you don't need to do 'proper' fix when you get home). And if for some reason the sealant won't seal the hole you just put a tube in to get you home.

Tyres (tubeless or not) are deforming all the time at the contact point with the road. With tubes in, the inner tube is constantly having to move against the tyre at the contact point, which generates some resistance. Take that resistance away and the same tyre rolls a lot faster. But then you can also reduce the pressure to allow more tyre deformation at the contact point (because you haven't got to worry about pinch flats and you haven't got that resistance penalty from the tube which increases at lower pressures. That extra deformation with lower pressures means the wheel will soak up little bumps in the road better than a rock-solid tyre.

sleepycactus

I've been running tubeless on my MTB for 20 years now and really don't recognise any of the arguments against tubeless listed by sleepycactus previously (I suspect they haven't used them day-to-day for any length of time). Self-sealing tubes are not the same as tubeless tyres running sealant. Tubes stretch, so a small hole can easily stretch wider to let more air out. tyre carcasses do not stretch, so after the sealant has sealed a puncture (which usually happens in a few seconds) the hole will not stretch any further and that hole is sealed for good. (you don't need to do 'proper' fix when you get home). And if for some reason the sealant won't seal the hole you just put a tube in to get you home.

Tyres (tubeless or not) are deforming all the time at the contact point with the road. With tubes in, the inner tube is constantly having to move against the tyre at the contact point, which generates some resistance. Take that resistance away and the same tyre rolls a lot faster. But then you can also reduce the pressure to allow more tyre deformation at the contact point (because you haven't got to worry about pinch flats and you haven't got that resistance penalty from the tube which increases at lower pressures. That extra deformation with lower pressures means the wheel will soak up little bumps in the road better than a rock-solid tyre.[/QUOTE]

Well if you don’t recognize any of my points, try re-reading them.
I am happy that you are happy with your tubeless!
Tubes with sealant can have several holes in them and still be airtight. I know that from experience with lots of them. They need no “proper" fix if the seal holds.
No you don’t have to worry about pinch flats with tubeless as I noted, but if you want to go really low pressure you may end up denting your expensive tubeless rim.
At 15lbs in a tubed tire like the Mike Atkien 20x2.35 (by the way, 15 lbs is not “rock solid”) my 165lbs can do very well blasting away on rocky trails and gravel logging roads. I don’t get pinch flats and I don’t dent rims.
You are right, I have not used tubeless extensively. I noticed little benefit. They don’t seem that different to me.

Schwinnsta

If your tire gets slashed and you have sealant in the tube it does go everywhere and its a big mess. How do I know. Not two days after putting sealant in the tubes of my Brompton, I was riding when I hit something and I could feel it and I heard the air going out my back tire. Upon examination, I had a an inch and a half gash in the back tire. Sealant was everywhere. I folded the Bike and called an Uber and hoped that the sealant would not mess up the Uber.

sleepycactus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwinnsta

If your tire gets slashed and you have sealant in the tube it does go everywhere and its a big mess. How do I know. Not two days after putting sealant in the tubes of my Brompton, I was riding when I hit something and I could feel it and I heard the air going out my back tire. Upon examination, I had a an inch and a half gash in the back tire. Sealant was everywhere. I folded the Bike and called an Uber and hoped that the sealant would not mess up the Uber.

Yes, if the tire and tube get a big slash that can happen and it has happened to me once or twice, so something to consider. Less likely to make a big mess if there is a tube though.
For those who want to explore tubeless may I suggest this post:
https://gypsybytrade.wordpress.com/2...bike-tubeless/
I have done some 20” tubeless using that “ghetto” technique.
With the methods he explains there, any tire/rim combination could be made tubeless.
The only tubeless specific option for 20" I know about is the Alienation TCS system, where the rim and tire are tubeless specific.
TCS ? Alienation BMX

rickybails

You still need to carry a spare tube or two with you when running tubeless tyres to get you home in case of problems. Then if you get a slash or failed tyre you are in no worse position than if you were running tubes in the first place. You also need to top up or replace the sealant every 6 months or so. For speed you can use Stan's injector (leave the tyre on, just remove the valve core) but weight weenies might want to take the tyre off and clean off the dried latex inside. The only time I've needed to put a tube in on a ride was when I hadn't topped up the latex in over a year and it had all dried out. For me, the lack of flats over the years has lead to complacency.