raria

Cylist in bike lane
Driver enters biklane without looking
Cyclist serves to avoid
Garbage truck runs her over.

It was NYC so lots of witnesses.

Will driver be charged. yes/no

https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/australian-cyclist-killed-by-garbage-truck-in-new-york-20180811-p4zwwg.html

Paul Barnard

The driver will not and should not be held responsible for the cyclist's death. The driver should be charged with failure to yield right of way. The cyclist chose the greater of two evils.

Ald1 

Very sad. It's almost impossible to do but I try not to move my bike in any space I don't check out first due to the almost killing myself. Was with a friend on a two lane road. We took the lane and signaled a left turn I knew a car was coming up so I started my left turn and heared brakes squealing. The car behind crossed the double line to pass just as I was trying to get out of the way and turn left. Young kid in a hurry. Lucky he was far enough behind not to T-bone me. Guess he didn't know a left turn signal......and I didn't know to estimate any drivers IQ above 10.......now I pull off to the right and wait till no cars are present to turn.

mr_bill

Standard A&S blame the victim. Will anything ever end the endless speculation?


The operator has been arrested for multiple charges including driving while under the influence.

-mr. bill

Colnago Mixte

Endless Python-esque arguing for the sake of arguing?



Which "operator'? There were 3 of them by my count.

Paul Barnard

Typical Mr Bill response of accusing people of blaming the victim when nobody did. This is an advocacy and safety forum. If we don't look at accidents from a standpoint of how we might learn and grow from it, then where's the safety value of the thread? I am a safety professional by trade. We always approach mishaps from a standpoint of what we might have done differently. Nobody here is saying the motorist was blameless. There's no safety value in placing blame. Let's just say we all agree that 100% of the blame lies with the motorist and that the cyclist could not have done anything whatsoever to reduce risk or mitigate damage. Where's the value in that?

I always try to operate in a reactionary bubble when at all possible. By that, I mean I try to leave myself an escape route. When I no longer have an escape route, I "what if" the situation. It is incredibly hard not to instinctively swerve away from a threat. If our rider was conditioned to "what if" she may have what if'd one of the cars had pulled out while a vehicle is in my danger zone. If I can mentally program myself to chose what I view as the lesser of evils, then I stand a chance making that choice when it hits the fan.

Someone posted a thread a few weeks back acknowledging that no matter how much we prepare, how defensive we operate, how alert we are, how ell we react, sometimes our number is simply up. This may have well been the case with this young woman. Maybe the van's brake lights didn't work. Maybe the tinting was such that she couldn't see someone in the driver's seat. Maybe she did slow when she didn't have a good escape route. Maybe traffic and parked cars were such that she could never build a reactionary bubble. Maybe she realized that and considered alternative routes but none existed.

In this safety forum if we don't discuss these things, where is the safety value?

Awaiting your dismissive response.

Paul Barnard

This makes it really interesting. The garbage truck driver was arrested for DUI.

So yeah, the garbage truck driver will likely be held responsible. The Toyota driver will not and should not be held responsible for the death.

Colnago Mixte

Why not, the Toyota driver was the one who created the dangerous situation in the first place. Set the whole tragic thing into motion, so to speak Do we want to encourage motorists to pull out into bike lanes w/o looking?

(sorry for the anti-Toyota advocacy, I personally think their quality is a bit over-rated)

Paul Barnard

I honestly don't know involuntary manslaughter laws well enough to make a legal argument one way or another relative to the Toyota driver. I am sure there is case law out there when a vehicle is a catalytic factor in an accident they weren't physically involved in. How responsible for the bicyclist's actions was the motorist? Did the cyclist swerve more than needed to avoid the collision. Did the cyclist fail to swerve and break? Did the cyclist grossly overreact? Did the Toyota completely block off the bicycle lane? Something just doesn't feel right about charging the Toyota driver with the death of the cyclist with the little info we have.

Colnago Mixte

I was thinking more in a civil case who would be held responsible. Criminally, you could probably only charge the Toyota driver with an unsafe lane charge or something like that, $250 fine or thereabouts. But that person will go the rest of their days knowing they were responsible for that cyclist's death. and will more than likely be sued.

HazardBiker

Just want to provide a data point from personal experience.

I was in a collision while riding my motorcycle where a driver cut a left turn in front of me. I avoided t-boning that vehicle, but another vehicle side swiped me coming up from behind. The driver that cut in front of me was not involved in the collision itself and kept going. However, they were found and held responsible for causing the collision. So based on my one little data point, it seems reasonable that the Toyota driver could (should) be held responsible as they were the one who's actions caused the chain of events.

Argument against responsibility fails on reductio ad absurdum.

Brian

Paul Barnard

I get that the driver was charged in your example. I am not arguing against that responsibility at all. If the driver is to be charged in the death in this case, I guess the charge would be involuntary manslaughter. That has a completely different legal standard than charging the motorist in the example you gave. As I mentioned earlier I just don't know enough about case law or the cyclist's actions to support charging the motorist with involuntary manslaughter.

vol

The above linked article did not say if Felipe Chairez was the driver of the garbage truck or of the Toyota. Then I read
so I thought maybe he's the Toyota driver, but according to Paul Barnard probably from other sources, he's the garbage truck driver.

Btw below is where the accident happened:


https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7726...thumbfov%3D100


Friday afternoon rush hour is the most hectic time in Manhattan traffic.

P.S. A mirror might have helped but not necessarily. IMO this accident has the same nature as dooring accidents.

raria

I was a witness in an accident where car x pulled out of a parking spot (as in this case) entered the lane of car y who swerved and hit car z.

In that situation car x was held responsible by the insurance companies 90% and car y 10% and car z 0%.

So why isn't the toyota car held responsible to some accord? If it wasn't for their actions there would be no accident.

raria

But I hate it when people get a "pass" because "they'll have to live with it for the rest of their life." I think of all the bad things I did in my life (and we all did) and after a while we just tend to forget them or in some cases some how justify to ourselves that we weren't to blame (or too much to blame).

Furthermore, I guarantee you that if the Toyota driver thinks about this daily (which I'm not sure they will) the parents, partner, siblings of the dead 23 year old girl will be thinking about her times more and most importantly will be severely affected by her death.

vol

This report says the Toyota was an Uber.

I-Like-To-Bike

Insurance companies do not have the responsibility or authority to "charge" anybody.

soonerrebel

Will the drivers be charged .. Toyota driver - possibly .. garbage truck driver - most likely, but that is a DA decision.

SHOULD they be charged, my humble opinion and not knowing ALL the evidence yet, YES.

First year law student couldn't screw this up.
Toyota driver: Reckless Endangerment, if convicted go for the max.
Garbage truck driver: DUI (of course) and Vehicular Manslaughter, if convicted go for the max.

raria

I hope for everyone's sake there is video footage.

This accident touches close to my heart as I've done this instinctly a few times. When a dog jumps out from behind a tree or a car at a cross road fails to stop behind their lines I instinctly (without thinking) move left.

Whilst it's true the garbage truck driver had a BAC of b/w 0.04 and 0.06 according to all reports, if the young lady quickly went into his lane (as I've done a few times) and he could not react his DUI is moot in my opinion and the Uber Toyoto Driver caused the accident.

I-Like-To-Bike

Is a BAC of b/w 0.04 and 0.06 prima facie evidence of DUI in NYC or anywhere else in the U.S.?

mr_bill

Paul Barnard

I worked for the Coast Guard at the Sector Command Center in NOLA when that went down. I wasn't on watch for initial phase of the operation, but I came in about 36 hours into the event.

That said, I have no idea what that has to do with the thread. I do know that as a matter of practice every person that has anything to do with a disaster like that is debriefed thoroughly. Every person was given a chance to tell their story in terms of what they did correctly and what they would do differently if they had to do it again. And that is precisely why I give consideration to what a cyclist might do differently when there is a cycling related mishap. In this case we don't have the benefit of knowing what exactly the cyclist did or might do differently. I do know there are often signs or a sign that a vehicle may be about to depart the curb.

That road she was on is a busy road with a lot going on. There's a lot of information to absorb. The rider may have had her focus on the garbage truck coming up on her and missed the signs that the Toyota was about to depart the curb. As I mentioned earlier if we assume there was nothing in the world the cyclist could have done to alter the outcome and leave it at that, we cheat ourselves and others out of any safety lesson we might take away from the situation and use for our future benefit. That's nowhere near "blaming the cyclist."

If I am ever killed or injured on my bike, PLEASE take the opportunity to try to draw lessons from it and learn from it. I can assure you when things don't go well for me I second guess myself.

vol

One article mentioned it was a no-truck route, so the garbage truck driver had two violations. But it could have been a car or bus or motorcycle that would hit her just the same, of course.

scott967

I see that the cyclist was Australian, visiting NYC and on a rental bike. I think I would have a hard time urban cycling in Aus, as my reflexes would be opposite what was required. In this case, would the cyclist be watching parked vehicles on the right? And moving left might be an ingrained reflex.

scott s.
.

northernlights

Unprotected bike lanes are just not safe.

I think cities are at fault for giving cyclists a false sense of security when riding in them.
At the very least, I think unprotected bike lanes ought to have disclaimers or warning signs: ride in them at your own risk.