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Too Much Pressure On My Hands

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Too Much Pressure On My Hands

Old 07-29-14, 04:41 PM
  #51  
skycyclepilot
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Originally Posted by wingtipsdown
Did you purchase your bike from Middletown cycle and fitness?
If not, call them - they are good people that could possibly help. Giant Dealer

I have your same bike, but I have the stock seat.
What I listed above is what works for me, I'm 49 and have only been riding for a few months.
My 1982 Schwinn felt great. When I was actually fit to the Defy 1 - everything felt different for a few days, but all as settled in well for me.
I will be replacing the seat by mid September. I need a more comfortable seat, but the current seat isn't killing me. Hopefully by September - I will be a little lighter as well.
No, I bought the bike in Lexington. They were good about answering questions and such, but seem to have grown tired of trying to help me get properly fit. I wouldn't feel right asking another dealer to help, since I didn't buy the bike there. At this point, I can't afford to pay for further help.
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Old 07-29-14, 04:43 PM
  #52  
jyl
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I can't believe we have gone to three pages on this thread without suggesting that you post a pic of yourself on the bike!
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Old 07-29-14, 04:52 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Kopsis
This is where I disagree. You can't apply a force to the pedal without an equal and opposite force acting on the rider's torso. Treating this as a simple "beam supported at two points" statics problem is an over-simplification that is not valid for any riding scenario except coasting.
... torso angle and how much if any is reduced by pedal pressure.
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Old 07-29-14, 04:56 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
In the center photo there are viertical lines that are reasonably close to vertical in the photo. There have been worse photos submitted for evaluation purposes. That said. I agree, and said as much earlier, that the saddle is not level. I don't really care about the care that was taken in measuring level. And neither does the riders butt. I have two saddles that are constructed in such a way that I have to tilt the nose of the saddle rather steeply upward to achieve a level surface at the rear section of the saddle where actual contact is made. On such a saddle there will be perineal pressure if the saddle is too far rearward leading to a constant low level tractive force being generated by the arms as they strive to pull the body forward to a more comfortable 'reach' to the bars. That's really what this thread comes down to: a saddle that is not quite level and a rider that has not built up enough mileage to normalize some of the discomfort that comes from riding modern bicycles.

I've heard it said a number of places that a Bumblebee cannot fly. They have too much mass to wing surface, and their power to weight ratio produces a negative coefficient. None of this theory affects the bees themselves and I see them occasionally as they visit flowers near my home in the summer. Maybe I shouldn't be using (vertical) stem extenders to raise my bars when I want less weight on my hands. The theory says that this does not work. It has worked well in practice, however. I employ the technique on a couple of bikes. FWIW.

KOPS is not an absolute, we've agreed on that but I think we can make suome rules about KOPS that are supported by the bicycle industry if not by theorists and fit experts who are peripheral to the design process. I think it is safe to say that if one intends to spin high rpm at the crank then a position at or even slightly forward of KOPS facilitates the rapid motions of the lower leg as they spin up to 120rpm and beyond. On a cruiser where 60rpm might be a maximal output a position considerably rearward of KOPS as much as 2" and more (think crank forward) behind KOPS works well for this purpose. Track and time trial bicycles will always have steep seat tubes to get the rider forward, zero setback seatposts also aid this. The usual 73* seat tube and 25mm set-back seatpost puts most riders a tad behind KOPS for the ~80rpm that most general purpose riding entails.

H
I'll experiment with a couple of degrees of nose up on the saddle. And the bumblebee thing has been resolved with high speed video cameras. . They get the extra lift by rotating the wings on the upstroke.

It makes sense to me that backing the saddle up so that I'm behind KOPS would shift my CG back and reduce the weight on my arms. My only concern is that the distance from the saddle nose to the handlebar is already greater than the length of my elbow to fingertips. I'm beginning to worry that this bike is never going to fit me, and that I've wasted $1500.
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Old 07-29-14, 05:41 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by skycyclepilot
I'm beginning to worry that this bike is never going to fit me, and that I've wasted $1500.
At most, you've wasted $1,000.00 (and a spouse) since you can always sell the bike and recover $500 (the spouse is gone for good I am afraid). Coupla things. My inner engineer insists that the forces acting on ones limbs as they operate a bicycle can never be balanced out by mere millimeters of movement of stems and seats. You are simply going to have to HTFU and learn to deal with some weight on your hands. I find this quite easy to do with drop handlebars like you have. Very easy. I have faith in you. I forget, I think you said you were 6'1". You are not a small guy. I am 5'10" and I would have no trouble riding your bike. Make me an offer. Kidding, I would lowball you like you would not believe. You would lose your second spouse as well. You just need to get dialed in. Relax. I've heard of buyers remorse but... sheesh. No more about this until tomorrow (I wouldnt be able to wait) when you do The Test. We will be here. It isn't worth losing your job over. Get off the internet and do some work before you lose your job (and any future wife... er... spouse. All this political correctness is... never mind.) Talk to you tomorrow.

H
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Old 07-29-14, 06:07 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
At most, you've wasted $1,000.00 (and a spouse) since you can always sell the bike and recover $500 (the spouse is gone for good I am afraid). Coupla things. My inner engineer insists that the forces acting on ones limbs as they operate a bicycle can never be balanced out by mere millimeters of movement of stems and seats. You are simply going to have to HTFU and learn to deal with some weight on your hands. I find this quite easy to do with drop handlebars like you have. Very easy. I have faith in you. I forget, I think you said you were 6'1". You are not a small guy. I am 5'10" and I would have no trouble riding your bike. Make me an offer. Kidding, I would lowball you like you would not believe. You would lose your second spouse as well. You just need to get dialed in. Relax. I've heard of buyers remorse but... sheesh. No more about this until tomorrow (I wouldnt be able to wait) when you do The Test. We will be here. It isn't worth losing your job over. Get off the internet and do some work before you lose your job (and any future wife... er... spouse. All this political correctness is... never mind.) Talk to you tomorrow.

H
I agree that mere millimeters doesn't make much of a difference, and I do need to HTFU. I just want to get the bike dialed in as close to right as possible before I put in those miles. And I'm trying to learn all I can. That's just me. No worries about the wife or the job. I'm with the wife in a hospital room, so I have nothing better to do - she sleeps, I talk bikes. But I'm sure you have other things to do, so we'll talk tomorrow. Thanks for all your help, and for helping me pass some time.
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Old 07-29-14, 06:09 PM
  #57  
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Other things commonly tried to reduce hand discomfort: padded gloves, padded tape (yours already look pretty thick), changing around between hand positions (one of the advantages of drop bars). If you ride on the bar tops, do your hands still hurt as quickly?

The neck discomfort - holding your neck in a flexed (craned) position for a long time isn't something you're probably used to. Changing your position on the bars can let you vary your neck position too. If your helmet has a visor that requires you to flex your neck even more to see under it, try removing the visor. There is another thread here where the OP wears glasses that force him to crane his neck. You can also do neck stretches as you ride.
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Old 07-30-14, 10:57 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
At most, you've wasted $1,000.00 (and a spouse) since you can always sell the bike and recover $500 (the spouse is gone for good I am afraid). Coupla things. My inner engineer insists that the forces acting on ones limbs as they operate a bicycle can never be balanced out by mere millimeters of movement of stems and seats. You are simply going to have to HTFU and learn to deal with some weight on your hands. I find this quite easy to do with drop handlebars like you have. Very easy. I have faith in you. I forget, I think you said you were 6'1". You are not a small guy. I am 5'10" and I would have no trouble riding your bike. Make me an offer. Kidding, I would lowball you like you would not believe. You would lose your second spouse as well. You just need to get dialed in. Relax. I've heard of buyers remorse but... sheesh. No more about this until tomorrow (I wouldnt be able to wait) when you do The Test. We will be here. It isn't worth losing your job over. Get off the internet and do some work before you lose your job (and any future wife... er... spouse. All this political correctness is... never mind.) Talk to you tomorrow.

H
Well, you were right. The distance from the nose of the saddle to the near edge of the bar is exactly 20" - when I put my elbow against the saddle, my middle finger just barely touches the bar. I read somewhere that it is OK for that length to be up to 20mm longer than that, so I'm thinking about moving the seat back about 20mm. It's all the way forward right now. And if the bar feels too far away, I have a stem that would move the bar 28mm nearer without changing the height at all, if I change the spacers around. And I'm going to try raising the nose of the saddle as has been recommended...
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Old 07-30-14, 11:05 AM
  #59  
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If this helps.

I'm 6' 2' and my LBS set me up on the new Defy 1 last week with a shorter stem. The stock stem was just a tad too long.
My seat is set a little back from centerline of the seat brackets.

PS:
The last thing the LBS did was fit me to the bars.
The seat position was placing the knees properly over the pedals.

So - moving your seat back and forth is changing the geometry of your knees.
If the seat was set properly. You need to adjust the bars - by moving the bars, not the seat.
Peace out.... Good luck.

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Old 07-30-14, 11:52 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by skycyclepilot
My only concern is that the distance from the saddle nose to the handlebar is already greater than the length of my elbow to fingertips. I'm beginning to worry that this bike is never going to fit me, and that I've wasted $1500.
I generally find my bars are well beyond my fingertips. In this case 5cm or 2" to the back of the bar with my elbow on the nose of the saddle. In the last thirty days I have put on 1100 miles with no discomfort.

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Old 07-30-14, 01:08 PM
  #61  
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Elbow-to-fingertips = saddle-to-bar is another rule of thumb that is just a first approximation. For example, one person might have long torso/short arms, vs another with short torso/long arms. Or one person might have long brifter hoods set horizontal, vs another with short hoods or brifters angled upwards.
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Old 07-30-14, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
At most, you've wasted $1,000.00 (and a spouse) since you can always sell the bike and recover $500 (the spouse is gone for good I am afraid). Coupla things. My inner engineer insists that the forces acting on ones limbs as they operate a bicycle can never be balanced out by mere millimeters of movement of stems and seats. You are simply going to have to HTFU and learn to deal with some weight on your hands. I find this quite easy to do with drop handlebars like you have. Very easy. I have faith in you. I forget, I think you said you were 6'1". You are not a small guy. I am 5'10" and I would have no trouble riding your bike. Make me an offer. Kidding, I would lowball you like you would not believe. You would lose your second spouse as well. You just need to get dialed in. Relax. I've heard of buyers remorse but... sheesh. No more about this until tomorrow (I wouldnt be able to wait) when you do The Test. We will be here. It isn't worth losing your job over. Get off the internet and do some work before you lose your job (and any future wife... er... spouse. All this political correctness is... never mind.) Talk to you tomorrow.

H
OK, with my elbow against the nose of the saddle - not on top of it - my fingertips just reach the closest edge of the handlebar. And I read somewhere that it is not uncommon for one's fingers to not be able to reach the handlebar by as much as 20mm - some say a lot more. I took this measurement with my seat set all the forward, in order to get KOPS. So, I decided to experiment - some more. I moved the saddle 20mm back, and tipped the nose up to 1°.

And I just got back from a 15 mile ride. The difference was major, to say the least. My hands were not aching after the first mile, and my neck was not sore. After 15 miles, I did experience a little numbness in my right hand, and my neck was a bit sore, but for a 52 year old, low mileage rider, I'd have to say it was no more discomfort than I would have expected. I only got off the bike once, at 11.5 miles, and felt refreshed after just a couple of minutes.

As they say, all the body metrics are just guidelines. For whatever reason, I need to be a good 20mm behind KOPS, and my bar needs to be at least that far from my fingertips to be comfortable. My average speed on the ride was 13.96 MPH, which is pretty typical, especially since I was not not pushing. I just rode at a pace that was comfortable and natural.

Thanks for all your help.
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