7up

Whenever I’m out and about in public I go with the flow.It can be a pain in the backside when other people don’t think and have common courtesy for other people using the MUP or anywhere else.As much as I would want to say something to someone it may prove to be costly if the verbal assault became physical.Just enjoy your ride.

Clipped_in

Yup, I'm digging on the Hinault leadout. Still going strong!

indyfabz

When the place first opened they positioned the bike rack so that rear wheels were actually sticking out on the trail. I remember thinking "WTF? How clueless can you be?"

WizardOfBoz

Before my time on the SRT. But there's a ditch on the bar side of the MUP, and (so that others know) the rack is now on the bank of that ditch at about a ~15° angle. So I can see why they tried to cheat. But it would seem that there could be stuff the gubmint could do that would cause problems. E.g. no direct access for any business directly facing onto the MUP, just for the reasons we've been reading about above.

WizardOfBoz

BTW, the SRT was named the best urban bike trail in the USA. 200 miles or so. It's pretty nice. So if you're visiting Philly and thought you wouldn't find a good place to ride - check it out.

WizardOfBoz

Also: That Hinault guy really seems to have a bee up his tuchus, huh?

KraneXL

Did you learn in school from the teacher being silent? Did you parents teach you common courtesy by NOT speaking up? If you don't say anything how will anyone ever know any better or if or what they're doing wrong?

Consider all the rights and freedoms all of us enjoy today -- but so easily and quickly take for granted -- because some caring soul of good conscience spoke up. If you see something and know its wrong, say something. Its the "squeaky wheel that gets the grease" I try never to forget that.

UniChris

What's transiting that first gap from Parker Ford to Pottstown like?

I guess I could get down there via NJT+Septa and ride the first 30 mile piece and back as a day trip, doing the first two segments with the gap and back for a century-ish goal would probably require spending the night before.

Any sense what hitting the return to the Philly end after dark would be like?

WizardOfBoz

That's a different part than I normally ride - others will have to comment. The website,
https://schuylkillrivertrail.com/tra...-to-pottstown/
says that from Parker Ford to Pottstown is not yet constructed, so I think that you're on your own on the streets. The websites are hopeless - I find VERY hard to navigate to find what I want.

I will say that from Betzwood to Manayunk along the Schuylkill is pretty great. I do recall going the other direction from Betzwood, towards Parkerford, but not sure if we got to the end of the constructed path. But it was a good (12 mile or so?) ride that was very scenic. So from Parkerford to Manayunk is 25 miles on mosly Mup with few crossings and streets and great views of the river.

Al_in_NH

I have news for you. Most of them KNOW, they just don't CARE. Run your mouth to the wrong person and you are liable to find yourself in a nasty situation. One that the "authorities" will say YOU created by opening your mouth first. Let it go.

The rights and freedoms we enjoy today have nothing to do with some 'caring soul of good conscience' speaking up. They come from men and women of honor and courage choosing to stand ready to do violence upon those who want or have wanted to take those rights and freedoms away. Please try to never forget THAT.

KraneXL

Have you ever look back in history at some of the world's greatest eras of suffering, exploitation and oppression and wondered how the people ever let things get that bad? I have, and in most case its typicality due to the complacent attitudes and philosophies of people like you.

Tyrants such as Hitler don't just come into power overnight or establish their regimes all in one day. Neither do bullies run the school or the neighborhood instantly. It happens gradually, in small increments, one day at a time. A few recognized the signs but didn't speak up soon enough or loud enough. Others, just adapted your philosophy and cower in shadows and keep silent until it was too late. I'll leave you with this quote:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke."And the great activists and civil rights leaders such as Gandhi, Mandella, MLK and others who motivated lasting change throughout entire nations and the world through nonviolence movements? How do you explain them?

Behind every revolution there is one voice -- man or women -- who is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for the good they believe in. By remaining silent you spit on their graves. If you're not going to do anything at least don't ever try and convince someone else not to.

downhillmaster

Can you be a little more cluelessly dramatic please?

livedarklions

You have definitely lost the argument if you're bringing up Hitler in a discussion of path etiquette. Classic Godwin's Law violation.

You're critical of people using their voice to announce passes because it's supposedly impossible to make yourself understood, but you want them to give lectures? That's ridiculous.

You ain't Gandhi, hate to break it to you.

WizardOfBoz

Ok, that quote does ratchet things up. But to the OP's point, I think that, to correct MUP ettiquette violations, sometimes you have to speak up.

I also think that the extrapolation to society as a whole is not too big an extrapolation.

Al_in_NH's brings up a couple of points which I think are contradictory. It's not just police and military people putting themselves in harm's way to protect our rights and freedoms. It's courageous citizens of all ranks that will speak up and risk putting themselves in harm's way. It doesn't have to mean drawing a knife or pulling out your Glock on people that are being rude, inconsiderate, obnoxious, or threatening. But speaking up and calling it like it is is what's needed. If one person does this, you might get an obnoxious ass being defensive and insisting upon his/her right to be a jerk. If enough people are willing to say something, the jerkish behavior may change.

There's a great quote from an Australian Army general. "The standard you walk past is the standard you accept". That goes for everybody. A nation of people who won't say "boo" to obnoxious, immoral or illegal behavior, and depend upon police or the Army to take all the risk and to do their talking, doesn't deserve the rights and freedoms you speak of. Freedom isn't free for anybody. To earn your rights, sometimes you have to take risks. Not to mention that it would be pretty sad to have to call the police to clear a path on the MUP.

Too, it's not just "honor and courage". The Nazi soldiers had "honor and courage". A warped and evil sense of honor, but to them it was honor. Inmates similarly have a warped sense of honor and are plenty courageous in fighting fellow inmates. So you need to couple that honor and courage to a moral compass. Something that defines "a good conscience". Now, I've never been in the military. But my understanding is that on the battlefield, its not "honor" or "patriotism" that drives people to heroic actions. It's caring and love that drive someone to risk their life for their brother (or these days, sister) and refusing to let their comrade down. If others have been in combat in the service or have faced danger as a peace officer, perhaps they can confirm this, or correct me.

Also, it doesn't have to be someone "willing to do violence upon those". It can be peaceful, passive resistance ala the lunch-counter sitters and "white section only" bus riders of the civil rights movement. So I guess a willingness to take the risk of violence upon oneself is another path to improving civil society, and earning the rights and freedoms we have.

To make this a little less overscoped, the actionable point is that sometimes you have to say something to people being jerks in order for them to stop being jerks. A simple "If your not pedaling, could you please keep the path clear?" is probably not out of line here.

jon c. 

Not sure people inconveniencing you on a bike path equates to suffering, exploitation and oppression.

When your out in public, you have to put up with other people. Choose empty roads and you eliminate the problem.

WizardOfBoz

Or, ask the folks to keep the path clear and maybe improve life for other riders. I don't think putting up with boorish behavior and retreating every time someone is a jerk is a good recipe for a positive society. And there may not be empty roads. Or the empty roads may not be as nice. Most importantly, choosing a different path does not eliminate the problem: it forces others deal with it.

I have some physical size and presence that probably give me a bit more influence that I should have, but everyone has a responsibility to try to improve things, else we descend into an immoral abyss with behavior defined on a totally transactional basis.

livedarklions

Or make a situational judgment and figure out whether it makes sense to say any more than "excuse me". This is being elevated into some sort of grand moral question, and it just isn't.

Bandera

St. Francis and Ghandi met of the MUP one day.

"What's up G?"
"Hey Frank, just the usual, freeing my country from colonial oppression and getting some miles in. You?"
"On my way to the dog park when I got hung up behind some a-holes blocking the MUP."
"Not a very Chill remark about your fellow man there Frank. I thought you were a Saint?"
"C'mon Mo, that gig only goes so far....."

WizardOfBoz

Of course. Choose your battles. But just saying "Gosh, there are a few idiots on the nicest path around, guess I'll go ride on the sucky path" is not the default option for me. And I'm comfortable with saying something (maybe because I'm 6'2" and weigh 245# and played defensive end for the Wisconsin Badgers*). Not saying that someone that's 125# dripping wet should confront a motorcycle gang. But sometimes, if you have the means**, you do have a moral obligation to try to make things better.

* Very poorly, and probably shouldn't have, but I did.

** or the careless foolishness

livedarklions

Rude and inconsiderate I address with a simple "excuse me" or if that's ignored a very loud "May I pass?!!" Most people seem pretty embarrassed by that one.

I save the lectures and shouting for people who are actually endangering other people, especially close-passing kids. I'll chase you down to yell at you for that.

I'm from Minnesota, but I have to admit that "Badgers Humiliate Gophers" is one of my all-time favorite headlines.

WizardOfBoz

Your approach is reasonable, and is a good one to adopt. Address a momentary thoughtlessness in a way that allows a person to realize that they're doing something that's inconveniencing people. Escalate to get attention.

I got lectured myself. There's a pretty good hill in our subdivision. When I get back from my normal ride, its a nice fast downhill. Well, a Mom had parked her big ol SUV in the middle of the street, and called her kids over - they were talking to her on the driver side. I passed on the passenger side and yelled something like "Coming through on your right!". Not at all rough or harsh. But I was going about 30-35 mph. Anyway, Mom revs up the SUV, takes off catches me, and starts screaming what an F'ing A'hole I am and that I should be more careful!

So I guess my point is it may be safer to confront a bunch of drunken cyclists than a clueless Mom.

That's a great headline, but I never much liked "humiliating" anyone. Football was always about getting the best out of myself. I surely didn't get up early and lift weights and work out and practice just so I could lord it over folks. I figured that playing those guys was the best challenge I could have. I respected opponents. I mean, yeah, you want to hit them so hard that they lose the will to play. But it would have been disappointing to be able to humiliate everyone.

The image of a real live badger humiliating a real gopher is funny (although, give what badger are like, it would be more like "badgers disembowel and eat gophers".

Al_in_NH

Oh please. We are talking about a MUP. You really need to get over yourself. If someone blocking the MUP gets you that worked up, you should seek professional help. Too funny.

Paul Barnard

You should use "an" MUP.

Al_in_NH

There's a better one from an American General.

"Be polite, be respectful, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."

But you lost me when you likened our military and police to Nazi's, and because of that you do not deserve anything more from me. You are a sad sad individual.

WizardOfBoz

That's not an accurate description of what I wrote, nor is it my feelings. If you have to misinterpret what other people say to make you feel superior, you are the sad individual. You are blocked.