djb

Star, I don't know what you know about seam sealing or if you've ever done it, but a really good seam sealing job is a must, and how you do it and how effective the job you do makes a difference.

Where and how you pitch a tent that makes a big difference in both how wet you may or may not get, as well as how long the tent floor lasts, ie holes in it from sharp things, which leads back to getting wet.

You also don't want to leave a tent out in the sun more than needed, and shady spots and such help a tent last from less uv damage to nylon.

I understand you are traveling by bike right now long term, so not as easy to do so these tests and seam sealing if you can't buy sealer.
I assume you have ditched the 10 pounder?

BobG

Heh! I'm on my third. I bought the first off the show room floor in Camden. It bounced off the top of my BOB trailer on the Great Divide route between Lima MT and Red Rocks NWR. I retraced 45 miles of gravel road searching for it with no luck. Bought a new one in Bozeman, this one made under the MSR label after the demise of Moss.

The second Starlet disappeared from a UPS shipment on the return from a TransAm tour. I found number three on sale second hand at a local backpacking store and bought it with the insurance money. This one is an original Camden ME Moss and is still in service today!

stardognine, Congratulations on your find. If you see a Moss Starlet at that Goodwill store for $5-$10 snap it up and sell it to the Walrus!

stardognine

Funny you should say that. When I checked the weather this morning, it said it was 34* F here in Prescott. Up in Flagstaff, they got a good coating of snow! In May, for Pete's sake. 😲
Thanks guys, I'm on a pretty good lucky streak lately. I definitely appreciate it (the good luck). 😎

stardognine

You mean for a profit, or just to prove I'm a nice guy? 😁 I kinda doubt if I'll find a THIRD tent in unused condition though, so he might get an old used one. 😉 But heck, I don't know if my luck is so good, I can start ordering specific models, either. 🤪😁

fortunately

Hey, if you wanna go the for profit route, I'd buy the Quest off you. I had one like it until it broke down in a strong wind, but had fun until then. I could revisit the good ol days...

Plus, I just car camp so 10 pounds is fine for me.

cyccommute 

I don’t know where you tour but “bugs”, specifically mosquitoes can be found nearly everywhere on the planet. Where mosquitoes aren’t, there are plenty of other little beasties that will gladly take a blood donation.

And it rains just about everywhere on the planet with a few notable exceptions.

Wind would be about the only time a tent wouldn’t be needed.

Tents also do more than just protect you from bugs and rain. They also help keep you warm. I (re)discovered this again this week. I don’t normally sleep without a fly on my tent. I decided to do so since it was a nice night and it seemed unlikely to rain. By about 2 a.m., I was enduring a very uncomfortable night in a 20°F bag because all my heat was radiating out of the tent. The previous two nights (at higher altitudes and slightly colder temperatures) were much more comfortable because I had used the fly.

L134 

In 2018 I did week on Great Divide using my 1970ish Sierra Designs tent - a 2 man, 4 seasons(i think), ~6lb tent. I didn’t want to invest in a new tent until I determined whether or not my 65 year old self still enjoyed camping. I determined I did and did another week on the Great Divide in July, again with my 40+ year old tent. I found I couldn't
save meaningful (to me) weight unless I went UL and/or 1 man. Didn’t want to go 1 man and, not being an ultra careful sort, decided UL was not a good choice for me. Tent I had was good for 1 week last year and another week this year. Maybe if I get out for more than a couple weeks I’ll look again for a new tent.

stardognine

Ha, the revenge of the zombie threads. 😁😉 I left that big ole tent in Prescott, as a freebie for someone to find. Somehow, I doubt if it's still there. 🤔😉
Believe it or not, I've still never set up this Ultra-Light tent. But it's there, for "just in case". We got rain here last night though, in Needles, CA, so it'll most likely start seeing some use. 😎

stardognine

Heh, I've grown accustomed (somewhat) to the weather here in the Mohave Valley. After awhile in the area of 110F, temps in the 80s at night can feel quite cool. One night, it got down into the high 70s, and I had to put on a sweater. 😲😁 I'm a little worried, how I'll adapt to winter again. 🤔

fortunately

I bet they loved the tent! Mighty nice of you.

Hope you have great camping in Needles! I was just on Route 66 yesterday and love the nostalgia of it all. Cheers!

Digger Goreman

Hi-jacking the thread a bit: I have been fascinated with tarp tenting. But which tarp? And how heavy do they get? One author cautions against the "blue budget tarps" as too noisy....

Any informed opinions?

staehpj1

Not everyone chooses to go as light as I do, but...
I have used a variety of tarps and I combine them with an ultralight bivy or bug bivy. I tried a bunch of different combinations starting with a heavier bivy and a little half tarp and ultimately graduated to a much lighter bivy and a bigger tarp. My current favorite is either a Ti Goat Ptramigan Bug Bivy (5.3 ounces) or a Borah side Zip bivy (7 ounces) with a Sea2Summit Escapist M 6'6" x 8'6" (12.3 ounces). I had been successfully using an Integral Designs (not RAB) Siltarp 1, 5'x8' (7 ounces), but decided that it was worth the extra ounces to have a bit more coverage. The coverage with the Siltarp 1 was just okay, but meant that it had to be pitched very low when there was rain with any breeze.

You need to add some stakes, cords, and maybe a pole. I carry 5 MSR needle stakes (1.6 ounces), sometimes an Easton .340" aluminum pole (1.6 ounces), and some light cords (170# dacron). I have sometimes eliminated the pole and used the bike or improvised whatever I could.

BTW, much of the time if the weather is good I just cowboy camp not bothering to pitch anything. I sleep on top of the bivy when I judge the weather and insects to allow it, and as needed I climb in, and then if necessary due to unexpected rain pull the tarp over myself and my gear. I guess in a real washout that could get dicey, but I have never had a problem with that approach. Good judgement on the weather and decent site selection has always served me well. When in doubt I pitch the tarp from the start.

On the original tent question...
I used a tent similar to the tent in the first post in this thread on my first tour. It was a coast to coast on the Trans America and three of us shared the tent. The space was generous for three, but I carried the tent and cursed the weight every day. I'd definitely splurge on a lighter 3 or 4 person tent for the three of us if doing it over, even if it was pretty expensive.

Even though the weight could be shared between the three of us by sharing other group gear 10 pounds is a lot and any time you can knock off 4 or 5 pounds by buying one piece of gear with no loss of comfort or convenience it is worth spending a good bit IMO. If you are talking about fewer than 3 people in a tent that size and weight it is definitely unsuitable IMO.

Digger Goreman

Now THAT is quality advice!

Super Thanks

stardognine

Hey, I didn't know we could say that! 😲😁 Don't be alarmed, I'm not the grammar police, just havin' fun. 😉

sdn40

One thing to watch out for that I haven't seen mentioned yet is condensation. Tents have improved by leaps and bounds with regard to weight and breathability. Seam sealing is nothing compared to waking up soaked with condensation dripping all night and no rain needed. Properly placed vents that can be opened or closed is one thing to look for. Youtube is your friend. For the most part, vintage tents are outdated tents.

Digger Goreman

staehpj1, I am intrigued with this bug bivvy over at Aliexpress https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3269...c00zweCWW&mp=1

What tarp size would you suggest to complement it? With the minimal space, it might be nice to have a little area for gear, and maybe the ability to close off the ends if inclimate and blowing rain....

staehpj1

It looks like it is designed to be able to be able to be pitched as more of a tent than mine is. With mine I just tie up one point with a little light cord to keep the mesh off my face if even that. I do that when I plan to be in the bivy from the start. If I start out cowboy camping I don't. You'd have both those options and the option of pitching it like a tent.

Normally I prefer to be able to pitch the tarp low when the weather is bad. You don't need as big of a tarp that way. It looks like the entry is through the top seam on this bivy. That may make for a bit of a difficult, and wet of an entry if you pitch the tarp low. Maybe you can undo the line on one end, crawl in, redo the line, and zip in, but it looks dicy. I guess you can just use it like I do and not pitch it like a tent, maybe with a cord holding up one end.

Any way, I'd think you'd want a tarp at least as big as one of the ones I used with mine. At the minimum something like my 5'x8' might suffice, but you'd probably be happier with more space especially with the top entry. So something more like my 6'6" x 8'6" might make sense. You can find some nice light tarps in that size range. Some are shaped to pitch as a shelter, but I actually kind of prefer the flexibility of a flat tarp. The larger size allows the same area of protection with a little higher pitch while the smaller one really needs to be pitched very low in bad weather. I like both models that I have, but am not sure if either is available. I have not kept up with the current models since I have been less active the last two years (been busy with other things that kept me home).

While I think the larger tarp is a good idea, I have done a lot of camping with the 5x8 tarp and it has served me well. I tend to leave my gear mostly packed so a little spray on the gear isn't a huge deal.

BTW, I really like the DWR shells on some sleeping bags or regular bivys and would use a DWR spray to treat my down bag's shell or bivy (not bug bivy) if it wasn't already DWR or otherwise water resistant. With a DWR treatment any dampness tends to be beads of water on the outside of the shell. The ability to brush/shake off a few drops clinging to the outside of the bag in the morning is way nicer than having a bag that gets damper every day.

Digger Goreman

Again, great advice.... What I have seen seems to be (more or less) inexpensive tarps with four to six attachment points, and relatively pricey (sometimes as much as a cheap tent) tarps with 16-18 attachment points... usually one or two on top....

Staehpj1, how useful is more attachment points, and how about corner quality. Are sewn loops better than grommets? Reinforced corners...?

I am almost thinking 8 attachment points so as to close either, or both, ends to the elements....

Thanks, again!

staehpj1

I don't need a lot of attachment points, I'd say 8 is enough. Four corners and one in the middle of each side is kind of the minimum, but fine. More is okay and even nice though. I like webbing loops, but other options can be fine if they are reinforced properly.

On price, yeah, they can be kind of stupidly expensive for a flat piece of fabric with some webbing loops or grommets. That said when I looked into making my own it quickly looked like enough expense and trouble that I bought completed ones.

Digger Goreman

With a buck off $20, the four season was pennies more than the three season, so went with the four.... Thanks to the dialogue, here, I feel that pitching a tarp diamond style, using the bike across the opening, then entering the bivvy, attaching the top point, and zipping inside, are doable.... Also possible to remove front tire and use as foot air flow/support, and lower the head area.... Ofc the tarp could, with the right weather, be pitched more openly... or not at all....

Digger Goreman

Staehpj1, if I can pick your brain further: with the outer works done, what type of sleeping pad do you recommend? What to avoid? Sleeping quilt?

Thanks for being a living resource!

staehpj1

Yeah, just giving up on bug protection probably isn't an option for many folks if any, but there are times and places where insects generally aren't a problem. I don't recall a single night on my Southern Tier starting in February in San Diego until somewhere close to the Texas-Louisiana line that bugs were a problem. Granted they suddenly were a HUGE deal there. I am sure there are a lot of folks who do trips where they don't need to deal with biting insects.

I don't specifically recall how many bike or backpacking trips I've done where I didn't have bug issues at all (if any), but I do remember a lot of nights where I cowboy camped.

For me shelter options are a balancing act depending on the expected conditions.

• If I expect hot buggy conditions I tend to use a tarp and mesh bug bivy. It is cooler sleeping and keeps the bugs off.
• If I expect cooler less buggy conditions a regular bivy and tarp works great. The bivy really is a great shelter from the wind and is good and quite a bit warmer than just the sleeping bag alone.
• I tend to try to avoid going when and where it is expected to be really wet and cold with hard rain every day, but if that were to be the expected conditions I just might consider taking a tent again. Then again I might not.

When the conditions aren't what I expected I make do the best I can with what I brought. I always allow enough of a safety margin that things are okay if not ideal.