JeanLucPicard

Hello,

I want to adjust my rear derailer as I can hear some rattling from it and the shifting can be a bit poor at times but the derailers are in good condition.
It is a Suntour AR with 5 gears. The front is 2 gears. The bike is a 1980s Japanese bike.

I watched this youtube video here as I don't have much experience in adjusting the derailers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQncKmddahk

The person there says to adjust the barrel adjustment I can put it into the 5th/middle cog, but he has much more gears than my bike so which gear should I use to adjust the barrel?
Is the way I adjust the b tension adjustment different as I have a much smaller cassette?
Is there anything I should do different than the video tells me as I have a much older and different brand of derailer?
Is there a different guide that may be better for me?

Thanks,

clubman 

Poor shifting and rattling on an older bike with an AR (long cage?) is more likely caused by other issues like cog/chain wear, lack of lubrication, bent cage, crud, grit, or more.

First order of business would be a thorough cleaning of the whole drivetrain. If the AR has a quick cage it's easy to remove the derailleur for cleaning.

Got pics?

Bill Kapaun

I would expect a 5 speed to have friction shifting?
IF so, just do a better job of "trimming" the gear you are in.

Have you installed a new chain without sizing it properly?

Is the RDER bent?
Stand behind the bike and eyeball the alignment of the pulleys with the cog it's on.

The Golden Boy 

I'm guessing with a Suntour AR and a 5 speed- it's friction shifting. You don't have the hard clicks that define the gear you're going in to. The Suntour AR doesn't have a barrel adjuster. The barrel adjuster isn't as important as it is for indexed shifting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uDtF2MJaP0

You just move the shifter until it's settled on the cog you're shifting in to. If the chain scrapes on the front derailleur, or is kind of dancing on the rear cog- you "trim" the derailleurs (make small adjustments) so the chain doesn't scrape or rattle about.

Your limit screws will stop the derailleur from dragging the chain off the freewheel to the far left and far right (onto the axle or into the spokes).

For the most part, you don't need to make derailleur adjustments (except for the limit- you set it once)- you adjust the position of your chain with your shifters.

JeanLucPicard

Yes that is correct, it is friction shifting.

The bike is very clean already, it's been degreased, washed etc. I haven't pulled it apart as I don't have the time and I haven't done it before.
I can't find anything that is bent or damaged. The bike is in very good condition, as it has been sitting in a garage for some time and the previous owner kept it in good nick. I think the front/rear derailleurs and cranks aren't original as every photo I've seen of the same bike online is different.

I did adjust a round barrel screw where the gear line goes. It looks like a barrel adjustment to me. When I adjusted it, I feel I got it in the right spot(gears changed so smoothly) but then I changed it again when I shouldn't have.

I feel it needs adjustment in some way, as I did have it much smother before, and it feels a bit more rough, but the rattle sounds have always been there and can't quite figure out where they are coming from. I only hear them when riding the bike, not when the wheels are turning freely. Also I hear a bit more of a noise/whine when I push harder on the right pedal, going up a hill etc.

seedsbelize 

Agree with all of the above. FYI, my AR ll has a barrel adjuster. I use friction shifting almost exclusively. As mentioned above, if the cable tension is correct (experience), all of the adjustment comes from the shift levers. I adjust the tension in whatever gear it's in, usually at a traffic light, or somewhere by the side of the road. If I have it in the work stand, I move the shift lever to its slackest position and pull the cable tight at the pinch bolt, with the barrel adjuster positioned mid way, so I can tighten or loosen it for fine tuning. Make sure you have the pinch bolt tight enough, so the cable doesn't slip. Also, make sure your shift levers aren't slipping.

Bill Kapaun

Since you posted this same question in February, why didn't you pay attention then?

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...adjusting.html

The Golden Boy 

I'll attempt to answer for him- He saw the video about adjusting the indexing and was confused about the function (specifically) of the AR, rather than the general action of shifting.

If I were looking at YouTube videos, trying to figure out why my bike isn't shifting as well as I think it should- I'd be confused because ALL the YT videos I see about adjusting shifting are about indexing systems. Because the mechanisms of the AR he has are similar to what is in the YT videos, he's expecting the barrel adjuster to have the same effect on his shifting. He knows it's different than his system, but assumes it's the AR, not friction.

At least, that's what I'd be thinking if I were new to this.

My Suntour AR doesn't have a barrel adjuster- so Jean Luc's must be a later version (post 1984).


BTW- If I'm off base JeanLucPicard, sorry for being presumptuous.

JeanLucPicard

Yeah that is right, and that thread was for a different newer bike that just needed the front derailer adjusted, which I got working perfect now.

I am a bit confused on how to adjust this bike. Not sure how to get the b tension screw right.

Anyway I will have a try on the weekend on to get it working better.

seedsbelize 

A little over the top, don't you think? In the mechanics forum, i could maybe see it.

Bill Kapaun

And you helped how?

seedsbelize 

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...-anything.html

The Golden Boy 

Generally, you want the upper jockey pulley as high as it can go as long as it isn't riding on the freewheel/cassette cogs.

I think you might be overthinking this "adjusting the bike" thing. A friction system is pretty simple.

JeanLucPicard

Yeah I do agree, but I am a bit of a perfectionist with things I fix.

One last question,
Any idea what this part below could be?
It is fairly tiny, about the size of a ball bearing.
It came from inside the derailleur when I loosen the bolt and I fixed the gear line.

The Golden Boy 

I think if you're having problems with the derailleur and a piece came out, your problem is probably a broken derailleur- regardless of how you adjust it, that part probably does "something" and AR derailleurs are relatively common and inexpensive.

I don't know that your derailleur is broken- but generally speaking, bike parts don't have extra parts that aren't important.

I would replace the derailleur.

JeanLucPicard

Alright thank you, I'll have a look on ebay now.

I have one more question, about the chain.
I checked the chain, not sure how old it could be. I checked with a ruler(12 inch) and it seems it is a bit stretched. I'll get one of those chain tools as well to double check. It's a Izumi chain so would a Izumi 1/2 x 3/32 a ok replacement for a 10 speed bike? If not, which Izumi is the correct replacement?

Thanks,

The Golden Boy 

I've used the SRAM PC870

https://www.amazon.com/SRAM-P-Link-Bi...ds=sram+pc-870

and the Shimano 6-7-8 speed chain.

Amazon.com : Shimano CN-HG70 6/7/8-Speed Chain Fits, Black : Bike Chains : Sports & Outdoors

JeanLucPicard

So those there are 1/2 x 3/32, they work on any 5 speed bike?
My local store has a Izumi 3/32(so I rather just pick it up there). That should be ok correct?

https://www.izumichain.co.jp/en/data/cyclechain_e.pdf
1/2x3/32 Standard

seedsbelize 

Personally, I believe you're over-thinking this. Get yourself an 8 spd chain and go riding.