Suntour Superbe long reach brakes?
#26
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,501
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2742 Post(s)
Liked 3,389 Times
in
2,052 Posts
I've been using the Bdop drop pads in 6600 Ultegra calipers for years without issue. They were cheaper back when I got them.
Likes For dedhed:
#27
Senior Member
consider your intended tire width:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...nary-tale.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...nary-tale.html
Likes For cyclist_obscura:
#28
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Posts: 9,827
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 797 Post(s)
Liked 695 Times
in
372 Posts
This is what I used when I too was dealing with your issue with some Gran Compes, https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Dia-Com...4AAOSwclNgGIuz
Vintage NOS Brake drop bolt chrome for Campagnolo Dia Compe gipiemme short NEW | eBay
__________________
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills
Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,742
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 525 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3230 Post(s)
Liked 3,865 Times
in
1,439 Posts
consider your intended tire width:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...nary-tale.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...nary-tale.html
Edit: looking at my pictures again, 27x1-1/4 could be a problem. @Bob Dopolina could give more specific guidance.
Last edited by Andy_K; 03-10-21 at 11:55 PM.
Likes For Andy_K:
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,033
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4510 Post(s)
Liked 6,374 Times
in
3,666 Posts
As Mr. Fattic said, there is no reason not to clearance the slots on these to get a few more mm. Consider the fact that the pad and bolt will be snugging up against %75 of the arm/slot at the bottom, far more than when they are in the middle of the slot and its not like you are extending the reach by 8-10mm. I have never seen any ill effects from this and I have seen a few that were taken to the extreme, scary looking, never failed. The concern about these being special is certainly valid but they will be enhanced for it at the end of the day.
#31
Junior Member
In a very strict sense, Suntour Superbe, introduced in 1977, may not be period correct on an "early 70"s" Roberts. Drop bolts could be "more" correct for the period.
#32
Senior Member
Just some confirmatory oratory.
1. The longest-reach Superbe/SpbPro calipers ever produced were spec'd 47-57mm.
2. Using drop bolts back in the day was the usual go-to solution, they work just fine. If you want to keep it all-vintage, that's a good vintage solution.
3. Filing the slots is safe if done carefully, but it's a lot of work if it doesn't get you the additional drop you need.
4. Sorry, I haven't used the BDop/Aican shoe droppers, can't help with feedback there. They look like a good solution to me, but not vintage.
5. The other solution bitd was going to a centerpull, but we snobs avoided them: extra weight/hassle, and centerpulls were for cheaper bikes. I did say we were snobs, feel free to ignore that. But, yuck.
6. I did make an exception for the lovely Gran Compe centerpulls, but they won't be long enough for this application.
1. The longest-reach Superbe/SpbPro calipers ever produced were spec'd 47-57mm.
2. Using drop bolts back in the day was the usual go-to solution, they work just fine. If you want to keep it all-vintage, that's a good vintage solution.
3. Filing the slots is safe if done carefully, but it's a lot of work if it doesn't get you the additional drop you need.
4. Sorry, I haven't used the BDop/Aican shoe droppers, can't help with feedback there. They look like a good solution to me, but not vintage.
5. The other solution bitd was going to a centerpull, but we snobs avoided them: extra weight/hassle, and centerpulls were for cheaper bikes. I did say we were snobs, feel free to ignore that. But, yuck.
6. I did make an exception for the lovely Gran Compe centerpulls, but they won't be long enough for this application.
__________________
Fuggedaboutit!
Fuggedaboutit!
Likes For pcb:
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Pottstown, PA: 30 miles NW of Philadelphia
Posts: 2,186
Bikes: 2 Trek Mtn, Cannondale R600 road, 6 vintage road bikes
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 472 Post(s)
Liked 1,028 Times
in
404 Posts
This is what I used when I too was dealing with your issue with some Gran Compes, https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Dia-Com...4AAOSwclNgGIuz
#34
Senior Member
If it were me, I'd just put a drop bolt on it and forget about it.
__________________
My bikes: '81 Trek 957, '83 Trek 720, '85 Trek 500, '85 Trek 770,'81 Merckx, '85 Centurion Cinelli, '85 Raleigh Portage, '92 RB-2, '09 Bianchi
My bikes: '81 Trek 957, '83 Trek 720, '85 Trek 500, '85 Trek 770,
#35
Senior member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,115
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 656 Times
in
370 Posts
My search for a pair of drop bolts has not turned up anything under about 200 bucks delivered to Canada. Some of the ones you find where you are may show "Does not ship to Canada" Such is life in the great white north.
However, I am always open to being pointed to available options.
Also, would a drop bolt for Campy brake work for Suntour?
However, I am always open to being pointed to available options.
Also, would a drop bolt for Campy brake work for Suntour?
Last edited by Dan Burkhart; 03-11-21 at 07:48 AM.
#36
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,510
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked 4,381 Times
in
2,090 Posts
My search for a pair of drop bolts has not turned up anything under about 200 bucks delivered to Canada. Some of the ones you find where you are may show "Does not ship to Canada" Such is life in the great white north.
However, I am always open to being pointed to available options.
However, I am always open to being pointed to available options.
I wouldn't do a hack job at the lovely anodizing on these Superbes - not for a client, anyway. Remember that there's also a small recess you have to file into the back of the caliper for the pad to fit correctly. Takes time, and the client probably won't like the result if they ever get a look at it before the pads go on.
If they can't hack the reality of this, tell them to go somewhere else - or do it themselves.
-Kurt
#37
Full Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 485
Bikes: Pinarello Gavia TSX; Bianchi Intenso
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 92 Times
in
62 Posts
The drop bolt I referred you to originally was $40 and shipped to Canada. I'm sure there are still others hanging around.
Likes For gkamieneski:
#38
Senior member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,115
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 656 Times
in
370 Posts
EDIT: I just found a listing for the matching front, but as I said before, when the shipping and import fees are added on, we're at about $200 for the set.
Last edited by Dan Burkhart; 03-11-21 at 02:10 PM.
Likes For Dan Burkhart:
#39
Full Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 485
Bikes: Pinarello Gavia TSX; Bianchi Intenso
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 92 Times
in
62 Posts
I don't recall needing a different one for front and rear, but I used one a long, long time ago.
#40
Senior member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,115
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 656 Times
in
370 Posts
Maybe you used the hack where you drill out the back side of the fork and use a recessed nut? If you want to use an external nut, the front needs a longer mounting bolt than the rear.
#41
Stop reading my posts!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,574
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1440 Post(s)
Liked 1,058 Times
in
783 Posts
a "Campy" drop bolt should also work fine on the Superbe calipers, but doubt you will find any for much cheaper (but stranger things have happened). If by some miracle I come across either brand of drop bolt in my stash (that I can part with) I will send you a PM, Dan Burkhart
Likes For unworthy1:
#42
Senior member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,115
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 656 Times
in
370 Posts
a "Campy" drop bolt should also work fine on the Superbe calipers, but doubt you will find any for much cheaper (but stranger things have happened). If by some miracle I come across either brand of drop bolt in my stash (that I can part with) I will send you a PM, Dan Burkhart
#43
(rhymes with spook)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Winslow, AR
Posts: 2,788
Bikes: '83 univega gran turismo x2, '85 schwinn super le tour,'89 miyata triple cross, '91 GT tequesta, '90 yokota grizzly peak, '94 GT backwoods, '95'ish scott tampico, '98 bonty privateer, '93 mongoose crossway 625, '98 parkpre ariel, 2k'ish giant fcr3
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 919 Post(s)
Liked 745 Times
in
546 Posts
make some drop bolts? some flat stock, a tap, and some bolts. paint them to color of the frame
#44
framebuilder
[QUOTE=cudak888;21962118I wouldn't do a hack job at the lovely anodizing on these Superbes - not for a client, anyway. Remember that there's also a small recess you have to file into the back of the caliper for the pad to fit correctly. Takes time, and the client probably won't like the result if they ever get a look at it before the pads go on. -Kurt[/QUOTE]
Kurt, I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying something more than just filing the slot longer is necessary? The back of the arm where the back of the brake block holder rests against it requires additional recessing?
Kurt, I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying something more than just filing the slot longer is necessary? The back of the arm where the back of the brake block holder rests against it requires additional recessing?
#45
Full Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 485
Bikes: Pinarello Gavia TSX; Bianchi Intenso
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 92 Times
in
62 Posts
Not sure with the Superbes, but believe he is referencing the recess on the bolt side of the caliper arms. If you were to enlarge the slot with a file, you may also need to "rout" the recesses of the arms so that the bolt can slide down to attach the shoe holders at a lower point.
Likes For gkamieneski:
#46
Stop reading my posts!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,574
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1440 Post(s)
Liked 1,058 Times
in
783 Posts
On the Superbe 4700 those milled out inboard recesses are open at the bottom, so if using the stock pad holders (or others of the same dimensions) there would be no additional mill or file work needed if the slots are elongated.
EDIT: a little clarification: the milling on the inboard of the caliper arms is for the tire guides tabs to fit and slide (up & down) along with the pads, and they are separate pieces to the pad holders. If you keep the tire guides then any flat-back pad /holder with the same diameter bolt can work. And if you hate tire guides just clip off everything but the tabs. Lost the tabs? Then try washers of proper thickness with flats filed on 2 sides.
EDIT: a little clarification: the milling on the inboard of the caliper arms is for the tire guides tabs to fit and slide (up & down) along with the pads, and they are separate pieces to the pad holders. If you keep the tire guides then any flat-back pad /holder with the same diameter bolt can work. And if you hate tire guides just clip off everything but the tabs. Lost the tabs? Then try washers of proper thickness with flats filed on 2 sides.
Last edited by unworthy1; 03-11-21 at 03:31 PM.
Likes For unworthy1:
#47
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,510
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked 4,381 Times
in
2,090 Posts
I still say the owner of this bike is asking for a square peg to be shoved in a round hole. If they have to have Superbes, they should cough up the $200 for the drop bolts.
-Kurt
#48
Full Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 485
Bikes: Pinarello Gavia TSX; Bianchi Intenso
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 92 Times
in
62 Posts
One thing I've noticed, looking at the photos again. It could be the angle, but it looks like if you go with the file slot solution, you're going to need to file almost down to the bottom of the material. So how much is a "bit short"?
#49
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,510
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked 4,381 Times
in
2,090 Posts
Another thing to consider: Are those wheels dished right in the first place? Seems like the pads would be level to each other when meeting the rim, if both set as low as possible.
-Kurt
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 7,236
Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer, '72 Gitane Gran Tourisme, '72 Peugeot PX10, '73 Speedwell Ti, '74 Peugeot UE-8, '75 Peugeot PR-10L, '80 Colnago Super, '85 De Rosa Pro, '86 Look Equipe 753, '86 Look KG86, '89 Parkpre Team, '90 Parkpre Team MTB, '90 Merlin
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 830 Post(s)
Liked 2,110 Times
in
553 Posts
Another kludge you can do, in addition to filing the slots, is to file the threads of the brake shoe posts. Just file a short section at the bottom where they contact the bottom of the post slot. That gets you another mm or two. It does look like a fair amount of slot filing would be needed, and I’d want to minimize filing as much as possible. Curious, if you subtract extra reach needed from distance between slot to bottom of caliper, how much is left?