Enough!
#1
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Enough!
Please, no more threads debating the usefulness of debating VC. No more polls discussing if we need threads debating the usefulness of debating VC. No more posts discussing if we need polls debating the usefulness of threads debating the usefulness of VC.
Try to read some of these threads from the view of an outsider. Someone posts, and by the 2nd page, it's the VC debate. Over and over again.
VC proponents, please show a bit of restraint in your postings. Many people tend to tune out a long-winded or heavy handed delivery.
Everyone else, can we please minimize the debate, and stick to the topic of whatever thread you're posting in?
Thank you.
Try to read some of these threads from the view of an outsider. Someone posts, and by the 2nd page, it's the VC debate. Over and over again.
VC proponents, please show a bit of restraint in your postings. Many people tend to tune out a long-winded or heavy handed delivery.
Everyone else, can we please minimize the debate, and stick to the topic of whatever thread you're posting in?
Thank you.
#2
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I'm sick of seeing thead *****ing about other threads..
#3
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" I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"
#4
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He's mad as hell in multible time zones.
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Originally Posted by 2wheeledsoul
He's mad as hell in multible time zones.
Ah you youngsters! That was a line and a scene from the movie "Network" (1976)
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Originally Posted by MERTON
why all the clocks?
I'm sick of repeated debates, but then again -- if this stuff didn't keep popping up, how would noobs get up to speed on these? Yeah, they should read the stickies and they should learn to use search. But they don't usually do those things, do they?
I dunno, if you don't want to read a thread, don't read it. If you don't want to participate in 'endless' debates, don't post. Piece of cake.
#8
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Yeah, I'm all about it.
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Originally Posted by Bikeforums
Your rights end where another poster's feelings begin.
#9
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Originally Posted by MERTON
why all the clocks?
I'm pretty sure that's Peter Finch and he won an oscar for that role.
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The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on my list.
The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on my list.
#10
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I've managed to avoid just about all threads debating vc and have usually managed to avoid the entire Advocacy and Safety forum altogether! It's pretty easy to do!
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Originally Posted by pinerider
I've managed to avoid just about all threads debating vc and have usually managed to avoid the entire Advocacy and Safety forum altogether! It's pretty easy to do!
jw
#12
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This is why I bowed out of the BL/VC debates last Friday. https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...postcount=1506
I saw this coming.
But it will pass and we will have fun again. Its important to keep active discussion on method of cycling safely in traffic - everyone should ignore the labels and focus on the methods, skills, experiences, etc.
Al
I saw this coming.
But it will pass and we will have fun again. Its important to keep active discussion on method of cycling safely in traffic - everyone should ignore the labels and focus on the methods, skills, experiences, etc.
Al
#13
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Originally Posted by pinerider
I've managed to avoid just about all threads debating vc and have usually managed to avoid the entire Advocacy and Safety forum altogether! It's pretty easy to do!
A&S is pretty much just VC talk with a few "look at this horrible accident" threads thrown in.
#14
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I move in and out of A&S. Sometimes, I'll leave it alone for days or even a month at a time. Of course, the debates wouldn't be "debates" if there weren't some hard core people who attack VC for the sake of attacking VC. And if people didn't post ideas about why they thought bike lanes were helpful, it would be harder to write criticisms of an idea no one espoused.
The debates often get mired down into personal attacks, not substantive arguments. In my admittedly biased view, the personal attacks usually (but not always) come from people who oppose VC. I used to point those out and (sometimes) respond in kind. I've tried to stop that. Putting the worst offender on my Ignore List made that easier.
That's another option. If a few forum members annoy you for whatever reason, put them on your Ignore List. If what they're saying as no persuasive value (like the posts of the person on my list), then you don't have to worry about other people believing their posts. But if what they're saying has persuasive value, respond to it with something more persuasive.
I think some of the most helpful posts are the examples of specific pieces of roadway with questions about how cyclists should traverse them or what kind of facilities (if any) are appropriate. That keeps the bike lane skeptics from talking about 25 mph roads and bike lane proponents from talkiing about cycling on freeways.
The debates often get mired down into personal attacks, not substantive arguments. In my admittedly biased view, the personal attacks usually (but not always) come from people who oppose VC. I used to point those out and (sometimes) respond in kind. I've tried to stop that. Putting the worst offender on my Ignore List made that easier.
That's another option. If a few forum members annoy you for whatever reason, put them on your Ignore List. If what they're saying as no persuasive value (like the posts of the person on my list), then you don't have to worry about other people believing their posts. But if what they're saying has persuasive value, respond to it with something more persuasive.
I think some of the most helpful posts are the examples of specific pieces of roadway with questions about how cyclists should traverse them or what kind of facilities (if any) are appropriate. That keeps the bike lane skeptics from talking about 25 mph roads and bike lane proponents from talkiing about cycling on freeways.
Last edited by Daily Commute; 01-16-06 at 11:22 AM.
#15
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Each side of the debate should also work better to police itself. If you see someone you generally agree with cross the line into personal attacks or stupidly inflamed rhetoric, tell them either with a PM or a post.
When my criticisms of one anti-VC'er's personal attacks also got too personal, others pointed that out to me. I've done the same for other people on my side of the debate. In one extreme case, I even started a thread about why I thought analogizing segregated cycling facilities to Nazi policies was deeply offensive. Finally, don't give "atta-boys" to posts that contain a strong personal attack but no substance.
Sorry about the double post, the forum is having database problems and I couldn't tack this on to the end of my last post.
When my criticisms of one anti-VC'er's personal attacks also got too personal, others pointed that out to me. I've done the same for other people on my side of the debate. In one extreme case, I even started a thread about why I thought analogizing segregated cycling facilities to Nazi policies was deeply offensive. Finally, don't give "atta-boys" to posts that contain a strong personal attack but no substance.
Sorry about the double post, the forum is having database problems and I couldn't tack this on to the end of my last post.
#16
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Before I started visiting Bikeforums.net, I was familiar with the concept of VC. But I had no idea that people would get so worked up over a topic that seems – to me anyway – rather mundane. I still can’t grasp why this stirs so much passion. Any theories?
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Sheriff: All alone?
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#17
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Originally Posted by FastFreddy
Before I started visiting Bikeforums.net, I was familiar with the concept of VC. But I had no idea that people would get so worked up over a topic that seems – to me anyway – rather mundane. I still can’t grasp why this stirs so much passion. Any theories?
And please no one take offense to this. I'm just as guilty as any of the people I just described in terms of fueling the fire. Debating about bike is about 5% as fun as biking. And that's saying a lot. I'd rate driving somewhere in the .01% range.
#18
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Another reason that it riles people is that it's important. Bike lanes, depending on your perspective, can greatly increase or decrease the fun and safety or riding. For example, I can get through my downtown pretty quickly now. But if cops expected me to stay in bike lanes, it would both slow me down and put me in a more dangerous part of the road. Yeah, that gets me riled up.
#19
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Expat.
Maybe we can quit debating VC on the A&S forum after you get everyone on the BMX forum to spell correctly, the SS&FG forum to stop bashing Pistas, and the Road forum to go a whole day without talking about poseurs. Good luck with all that and then get back to us.
Maybe we can quit debating VC on the A&S forum after you get everyone on the BMX forum to spell correctly, the SS&FG forum to stop bashing Pistas, and the Road forum to go a whole day without talking about poseurs. Good luck with all that and then get back to us.
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Non semper erit aestas.
#20
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Originally Posted by Treespeed
Expat.
Maybe we can quit debating VC on the A&S forum after you get everyone on the BMX forum to spell correctly, the SS&FG forum to stop bashing Pistas, and the Road forum to go a whole day without talking about poseurs. Good luck with all that and then get back to us.
Maybe we can quit debating VC on the A&S forum after you get everyone on the BMX forum to spell correctly, the SS&FG forum to stop bashing Pistas, and the Road forum to go a whole day without talking about poseurs. Good luck with all that and then get back to us.
#21
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Yada, yada, warden!
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
#23
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Actually, reading the threads about VC here has made me a better cyclist and kept me safer on streets. i.e. I now completely avoid right-hooks by taking the lane at the light. I also avoid bike lanes which are painted in an unsafe manner. Etc.
VC is very relevant to Advocacy & Safety. If you don't like the topics, then don't read them. Maybe the "General Cycling Discussion" forum might be more to your liking.
VC is very relevant to Advocacy & Safety. If you don't like the topics, then don't read them. Maybe the "General Cycling Discussion" forum might be more to your liking.
#24
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Originally Posted by mac
Actually, reading the threads about VC here has made me a better cyclist and kept me safer on streets. .
jw
#25
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Originally Posted by mac
Actually, reading the threads about VC here has made me a better cyclist and kept me safer on streets. i.e. I now completely avoid right-hooks by taking the lane at the light. I also avoid bike lanes which are painted in an unsafe manner. Etc.
VC is very relevant to Advocacy & Safety. If you don't like the topics, then don't read them. Maybe the "General Cycling Discussion" forum might be more to your liking.
VC is very relevant to Advocacy & Safety. If you don't like the topics, then don't read them. Maybe the "General Cycling Discussion" forum might be more to your liking.