nitropowered

Sorry bud but like most everyone else's reply my shop or myself personally never lets other people borrow tools. Although my shop provides me with tools, I have my own personal tool collection to work on bikes on the road and at home. I have invested over $2,000 in tools with thousands more on my wishlist. Auto mechanics can easily have $10K+ in the rolling tool carts. Mechanics make money with their tools so don't be offended when mechanics say no.

Lithuania

maybe this is why you USED to own a shop

AssosMan

Do you actually expect me to drive around to 7 bike shops? Like everyone else, I just don't have the time. Why do you think they have phones in the first place********** Besides, half of them didn't have the headset in stock so showing up in person would be pretty useless.

Yes, I admit I was wrong ripping on the LBSes. I come from a small town (less than 30 people) and as I said in a previous post, I was basing my impression on my first bike store tool lending experience (with PerformanceBike)... At the time it didn't seem like a big deal and it obviosuly didn't even bother the mechanics so I figured it was a normal thing to do.

So in the end, I just apparently found the nicest bike shop around and I'll never ask any other LBSes for tools!

Spreggy

I won't even let family borrow tools if I can help it.

BarracksSi

I wonder if you work at my LBS.

They all know my name (better than I know all of their names, sadly enough), they know where I work, where I live, etc. They joke with me and say, "You should just work here," because I spend too muc.. a lot of time there. They know that I know my limits -- I'll just say, "I've never done this," and they take care of it, letting me watch and learn for myself. They also trust that I'm not an idiot and won't blame them for something that I screw up.

So, it's come to them letting me use a stand and tools to change a crank on a bike that I bought used (from another BF'er, no less), using a brand-new crank that I found via Craigslist.

None of the other shops know me as well, so I'd never think of asking that level of trust from them.

fogrider

there is a shop in berkeley that has a spot with tools for do it yourselfers, I haven't been there for years, so I don't know if they still have that. but this is the way a shop makes money, I don't have a problem with paying a skilled mechanic to do something. I would think that if you were going to buy a ck headset and asked if they could pop off the old cups, most shops would just do it for nothing. I can think of a few that would not do it.

darksiderising

From my experience, most LBSs are owned by someone who works there. They own the shop as well as the tools.

darksiderising

Here's my perspective as a mechanic at a LBS:

Point 1:
Generally, customers unappreciated the work that you do as a bike mechanic. Everything will "just take a second" or is "really simple." They either do not realize or care that it took a certain amount of time to learn how to do something, and know-how is a service which should be payed for. They often seem to think that all we do is stand around waiting for work to come in. There is always work to do, and there is a level of stress that accompanies job deadlines.

Point 2:
On the other hand, our customers keep us in business. This is something that one needs to remind themselves of in many situations.

Point 3:
Online sales are hurting many aspects of the bike industry. Bike shops are undercut and many go under. Cheap "alternative" parts and tools are being sold online and don't benefit bike companies. If your LBS goes under, you will have nobody to go to for sales or service. In addition, it has become more and more common for customers to walk into bike shops with no intention of giving business to the shop. They are looking for information to use elsewhere (usually online). This is very discouraging and makes some salespeople not want to liberally give out information or assistance. A perfect example is a customer trying to get fit for a bike they plan to buy online.

Point 4:
Time is money. If a customer gets lent a tool, there is a (good) chance that they are going to ask for assistance. This will pull an employee away from another service job or bike build. This also causes that employee to be servicing your bike for free. There is a great non-profit used bike shop in my area that will show you how to fix anything on your bike for a suggested donation of $10/hr and I recommend that shop to anyone who wants to actively learn how to do something themselves.

I believe that a balance is obviously needed in a partly service-driven business. At our shop, we draw the line at advice, recommendations, and explaining how to do something. We will not, however, lend out our tools. I have read most of the posts in this thread and can understand many of the feelings, but we do not want to be used, and we know that some people will simply use us, especially in this economy. The situation where a customer asks for tools is effected by the above four points.

So ask yourself. Do you buy most of your stuff online, or do you frequent a bike shop? If you do not support the bike shop, why should they be expected to support you?

And to the OP, that tool is not a $10 tool. It retails for over $30. And even if you don't break it, every time you use a tool, a certain amount of wear is imposed upon the tool.

Also, keep in mind that the service department in shops does not bring in most of the money. The sales floor accounts for the majority of profits. Bike shops aren't exactly rolling around in money in the work area. In general, most bike shops are not rolling around in any money. Bills need to be paid, and employees need to be paid. Most shops never grow in size or economic wealth.

Remember this classic joke:

How do you make a million dollars in the bike industry?

Start with 2.

heyguys

ive become dumber after reading this thread

roadwarrior

Exactly...
Take a few minutes and peruse this forum. Then ask yourself, would you want them in your shop near sharp objects?

Plus...here's a revelation...they are running a business. That means that one of the things they do is repair things in return for payment. The big meanies.

I tell ya...

roadwarrior

It's one of the reasons why I spend very little time here anymore.

Retro Grouch 

"Can I borrow your tools so I don't have to pay somebody to do what you make your living at?"

lung

I got out of the bike business because of the the eBay/WalMart revolution and because eveyone wanted to borrow my tools all the time!

jefferee

It's just like smoking weed, only cheaper. Win-win!

Gotcha38

Sounds to me like I'd be taking my business to Performance Bike too. I had a much better experience at the Cycle Center in Columbia than my LBS, but they're an hour away so I'm forced to deal with the LBS.

Bontrager

AutoZone (and other car parts stores) lend tools for free. They charge you for it and then give you your money back when you return it. I understand they sell parts so are not jeopardizing their service department when they lend tools.

@ a poster above: I don't care if the tool retails for $30. If it cost you (the shop) $10 to buy, you deducted that amount on your shop's income when you ordered it, just as you did with the rest of the equipment you purchased to start-up your bike shop.

@ the posters complaining about owning a bicycle shop is making them poor: 1) No one is holding a gun to your head. Go start a profitable business or go back to school and get another job. If selling and fixing bikes is making you poor then get out while you're still ahead. 2) Stop having high-school kids fix my bike behind the counter. When I bring my bike in take it in the back and have some old greasy guy come out and tell me there's something horrible wrong with my bike but because he fixed the exact same thing in 'Nam once, I might have my bike back for tomorrow's ride. Maybe then I'll think wrenching on bikes requires a little more than a few tools and ParkTools.com. 3) Quit advertisiing free "overhauling bottom brackets for women" classes - if it's that easy then why should I pay you to do it?

@ the OP. Next time anticipate the tools you need and have them ready before you start wrenching. Or call a buddy or someone in your local bike club. Or go to HomeDepot/Lowe's and make your own if it's just a tube (I don't know).

I'm going to grossly generalize/stereotype us guys and say that we like to tinker. Cars, dryers, washing machines, whatever. Wether we can fix it or not, we'll go down in flames trying. A bike isn't that hard to tinker with. Quit giving the OP $hit for trying

bitingduck

I had an LBS lend me a tool unsolicited once recently, but I would never go into a shop that didn't have a "public shop" area and ask to use their tools.

I was building up a new track bike and needed to cut the steerer tube. I have a thread-on guide for cutting threaded steerers, but hadn't done a threadless, so I don't have the guide for that and wanted to go buy one. None of the shops within a reasonable distance had one in stock, so I stopped by a weird little shop in my neighborhood that does mostly mtbs and cruisers, and asked if he had one. I'd been in this shop maybe twice before, more than a couple years ago, and they just don't carry stuff that I need, but I asked on the off chance he might have stocked it and never sold it because he's pretty low traffic. I buy pet food at the pet store next door that I think is affiliated.

He said something like "Wow, nobody's ever asked me if I had one to sell before. How long do you need it for? I can lend you mine." I told him about an hour, and since he was closing in that time I said I could return it around opening time in the morning. Then he asked about the bike I was building (Giant TCR Advanced Team Track) I gave him my ID and he wrote down the info, and offered rent and a deposit, which he wouldn't take. Took it home, cut the steerer, brought it back in the morning. I was pretty surprised that he was that willing to lend to a total stranger.

DrPete 

Pretty much it right there.

txvintage

I have three different shops I frequent. Each for different reasons.

The one I use for service is pretty much all the business I provide them. The wrench knows I do most of my own work when I can. When I bring something in he always shows me what to do next time if he has the time. I have started to buy my Park stuff there even though it costs a bit more. Any time I buy something they make sure to ask if I know how to use it and show me if I have any doubts or don't have a clue.

It's a small shop, and they don't carry a single bike that I normally would have on my shopping list. They have been around for years though, and I try and recommend them as often as possible to people I know looking for a bike in a certain price range rather than specific brands.

I think it really does come down to having a relationship with your LBS. I would never ask for a special deal, but after you have bought or spent enough money and time there, it's amazing what they are sometimes willing to do for you.

Doolittle

At my work, we'll lend out a pump and tools that can be use to tighten any parts of a bike (hex wrench, screwdriver, wrenches, that kind of stuff). I think that anything beyond that is unreasonable. We also often perform quick repairs for free, usually just minor brake and gear adjustments. Bicycle shops are an interesting blend of retail and service and I'm consistently surprised at the amount of free stuff people expect from us. Part of me is sometimes tempted to simply tell people with a never-ending stream of theoretical questions to simply look it up on the internet ("If aliens attempt to abduct my bike, which lock will provide the greatest protection and how long will these tires last in an atmosphere with substantially lower pressure than our own?"). That being said, the substantial majority of customers are reasonable and often a pleasure to deal with. Even the people with Magnas.

AssosMan

I understand where you're coming from and I agree that I was being a complete ahole. I just thought that shops that tend "go over what is expected" earn the most loyal customers; so in the end, lending me a cheap tool would actually pay out (every dealer should know that a person who buys a CK is sucker for bike swag and thus a potential bag of money).

Sure, borrowing tools shouldn't be standard procedure (I got that), but it's what made me go to PBike rather than the rest.

Namenda

Forget bike tools, I wanna borrow your tools, Pete. I've got some cuttin' and cauterizin' to do.

BarracksSi

Hmm... well, I tend to think it's the other way around. It's "their house", so to speak; they spend their days there, they probably spend more time together than with their own families, they eat their meals there. I try to be a good guest. I didn't even ask for the first beer that they offered me after closing time (Italian beer, too ).

Now, I agree that going above & beyond helps earn customers, but that also runs the risk of customers expecting even more than the shop is willing to give. It's not the customers' shop -- the customers don't set the rules.

There's also the chance that such a person (not you specifically) is buying CK only because they saw an ad in Bicycling Magazine and doesn't really know much about wrenching.

unterhausen

shop I worked in had a customer Park stand and a set of tools. And they had an air hose outside, but unfortunately we had to bring the head in at the end of the day or people would steal it.

I'm somewhat conflicted about the OP. I certainly wouldn't call around asking to borrow tools, you are actively wasting their time. There are some tools that I certainly would never lend out. It's probably easier and possibly less damaging to the customer relationship to have a blanket policy of no tool lending. I've certainly met plenty of customers that thought they could fix bikes and were very wrong.

telebianchi

What would the shop charge you to do the work? $30? $45? So by spending $10 you are saving money.

I've got several tools at home that I've only used one time. Stuff for the bike, car, house repairs. It's just part of the price you pay to save money compared to hiring someone else to do it. Would you as a painter to borrow their brush so you could touch up a window frame?