freckles

Looking for my first ebike for over 1 year and cannot make a decision. Live in a high bike theft urban area to use ebike as a car replacement so limiting budget to 1.5-2k.

I'm 5'2" on a good day, middle age, petite, constrained by length of bike max 66" (due to small landing at building entrance).

Needs-
Class 3 w/throttle, step through frame, Walk mode, folding not preferred, hydraulic brakes, torque sensor, 750 watts, lights/racks/fenders, 20" tires 3" width or 4"(not knobby) tires.

Maybes- Mag vs spoke wheels? Is one "better" on 20" wheels? Suspension?

Min height- is it dependent on the rider staying seated with feet reaching the ground (like on a vespa scooter) while stopped b/c ebikes are much heavier? On my regular bike, my seat height is too high to sit while stopped. I have one foot on the pedal and lean frame while stopped. Will doing this be unsafe on an ebike due to weight?

Type of bike I'm looking for- Tern (HSD or other smaller model), Specialized Haul ST, REI Coop cycles, Fiido T1, Velowave Prado, Aventon Sinch, Vitilan U7, Donky bike.
Trying to avoid folding bikes b/c of the common weird handlebar stems- they are high/awkward far reach and don't need to fold.

Current bike is a Bike Friday NWT (no desire to electrify). Previous bike was a Workcycles Oma- loved it but it was too relaxed, not good for city riding. I believe the length is 66" and just fit inside the landing.

veganbikes

Class 3 is not a moped so no throttle on it is a bicycle that can go up to 28mph with pedal assist. Mag wheels are terrible on everything except old school BMX bikes the ones you find for "e-bikes" are cheap hunks of metal, heavy, non-truable and usually with poor quality parts. I would also avoid fat tires unless your are doing 90% or above of your riding on sand and snow.

In terms of watts of your motor the number you list is generally peak power and is a silly measurement but the reason a lot of the lower quality motor manufacturers list that is because their nominal power which Bosch, Brose, Shimano...all list is not that impressive. 250 watts with a good quality motor with good torque and you will be fine.

In terms of stopping and such saddle height should be the exact same as on your other bikes you wouldn't want to have an extra low seatpost just for stopping, get a bike for riding not a bike for sitting on stopped. The bike might weight a tiny bit more but in the end it is just a normal bike. Plus a bike like you want would generally be a lower entry anyway so you can just hop off at a stop easily.

The Tern HSD would be a really good choice. It will be above your listed budget but any good e-bike is going to be above that. It is Bosch equipped so it will be reliable and long term serviceable. Tern has excellent support on top of that which is crucial. The random stuff online will have limited if any support and the quality will be low.

The initial price is cheaper on the online bikes but you are basically buying a frame with some cheap components on it that was thrown together and thrown in a box and that box might as well have your name on it as most of these companies don't want to support you for long if at all and sometimes even if they do it is poor support or the bike is of such poor quality you can be chasing problems for a while. Sometimes as well the companies are gone and you cannot get support from them.

cat0020

I have had mine Fiido T1 since NOV 2021, 750w hub motor, 20 Ah battery, 3 levels of PAS, 28 mph top speed, 7-speed in the rear, all under $1499 shipped to my driveway back in NOV 2021.
I've put about 1200 miles on it since, still ride it weekly.

Though the original T1 model has been recalled, I received a replacement Fiido T1 PRO for no cost, just no battery came with the replacement, original battery fits right onto the replacement T1.
I still ride my original T1, I keep an eye on the weak spot of the frame that triggered the recall on every ride. I don't take any jumps, I don't overload the bike with heavy weights and I try to avoid impact at all cost. It seems to behold up just fine and with the replacement T1 still in my garage, I converted it to fit my wife at 4' 11".

The replacement T1 does seem to have less abrupt power output, still gets up to 28 mph, but takes a bit longer to do so.
The rear motor is mark as "250w", I suspect it's just to stay under the radar of most countries with regulations that require ebikes to have 250w output.

More recently, back in NOV 2022, I used my AliEx rebate to buy another compact cargo ebike, for free.
750w, dual batterie (combined 34 Ah), 7-speed, also 28 mph max speed; it was invoiced under $1700 with free shipping to my driveway.


I've owned long cargo ebikes before, ridden approx. 700 miles in NYC metro.
The larger size is well suited if you're carrying oversized cargo or children, but not so much for just regular grocery runs to the store or carrying a single child.
The large sized cargo bikes really take up room when not in use, while normally it doesn't bother me, but maneuvering in tight city traffic can be more difficult.


The compact cargo ebikes are really ideal for me, since these feel much more nimble than the long cargo bikes.
IME, there are no issues with cheap, hub-motor ebikes. I ride them in just about all weather in NYC metro, plenty of demanding conditions & surface pattern.
Thousand of delivery workers on ebikes also depend on their hub-motor cheap ebikes for their livelyhoods; if they are not reliable, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be so popular among the workhorses.
If you're semi-handy with bicycle mechanics, have some tools, you can easily maintain these cheap, hub-motor ebikes.
Cast wheels do hold up better than spoked wheels, but they do tend to weigh more.

I've also owned a TERN GSD in the past, due to the cost of it, I'm constantly worried about it getting stolen in NYC.
Performance wise, I didn't feel it offer significant advantage to render the extra cost of additional $1500 from hub-motor ebikes.

If you have specific questions about compact cargo ebikes, feel free to ask.

2old

You're in socal, so not far from e-shops. There's an excellent one in Fullerton, so if they sell you something and there's a problem, you'll have service. However, my first choice for you would be REI; they have excellent products and you can test them before you buy. Their 30% off sale means the $1200 "cargo" bike is well-priced. If I were you, I'd start there.

cat0020

REI $1200-1500 cargo ebike is 350w hub motor, far from class 3 capabilities.

2old

I should have mentioned that my son has a Lectric Cycle ($800 or $1,000 for 20 mph and 28 mph models, respectively - he has the latter) which has been perfect, but you said that you didn't want a folder and all of theirs are that type (AFAIK).

freckles

Thank you,
Throttle will be used just for getting up to speed/crossing intersections. I don't expect to ride at 28mph regularly, just want to have the option using PAS so that I can ride longer/further/carry more stuff than I do now on my little NWT.

If I lived somewhere a Tern was safe to park, I most likely would purchase one. I've never locked my NWT, if I can't roll it in, I don't go there at all or by bike.

I want this cheap ebike to give more options of where I can bike/park.

freckles

HI! I saw your post re- DTC ebikes and posted hoping you'd reply!

I like the Fiido T1 but its too long for me to maneuver in my entryway. I need to stay about 66" in length. If you know of any ecargo bikes that are 66" PLEASE let me know!

How did you modify it for your wife? I can see the frame is shorter where the seat tube goes. Are the handlebars too high for her to use comfortably?

I really like how your 3rd (white) bike handlebar stem is lower compared to the others.

What's your opinion on the different wheels- spokes vs mag?

freckles

I do like REI compact cargo bike but its a Class 1 and so won't be able to help me do the car free errands that I'm hoping a Class 3 will. If I lived somewhere like the NL, with amazing infrastructure, I'd buy a eMuli (Class 1) b/c I would never "need" to keep up with cars for "my safety".

freckles

Yes, I was just going to buy the Lectric 3.0 but then I discovered the DTC bikes online/Amazon that sent me down a rabbit hole to find a non folding class 3 compact ecargo bike. I feel like a non folder frame would be stronger/stable(?) and plus have more options when locking it up. The Lectric 3.0 is a fantastic price!

2old

Thanks for your reply. I looked at a couple of sites and saw your dilemma. I don't blame you for wanting a Class 3; 20 mph is too slow for the road IMO. Remember, if you find a folder with narrow bars, they're probably there to make the folded package as small as possible. If you wanted to change the bars to longer ones, that should be an easy swap. Anyway, good luck and keep us informed.
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cat0020

Not sure which DTC thread you meant.. please provide a link.

Are you trying to fit into an elevator with the 66" limit?

I will try to post some pictures of the Fiido T1 mods for my wife this weekend, looks like rain in the forecast.

I will have to measure the white, dual battery cargo bike is it is under 66" in length.

I ride in NYC metro, lots of potholes, rough pavement, sometimes gravel & metal planks that are 2"-3" tall.
Spoked wheels are lighter, but tend to get beaten up more and spokes need to be tensioned.
Cast wheels are heavier, but maintenance free until the bearings give out.
For these e-moped style ebikes, cast wheels are the way to go IMO.
Fat tires can absorb most of the road shock, unlikely that you will hit something that will damage the cast wheels unless you're traveling at high speed with heavy cargo load.

If you can be more specific about how tall you are, your usage of this compact cargo ebike purchase, maybe I would be able to offer more of my experience at to how well these might fit your purpose.

2old

If you don't see anything better, I think the Lectric "low bar" $1K model with a wider bar would satisfy your requirements. The "high bar" version has been bulletproof for my son.

cat0020

Rode about 10-15 miles on each bike this morning before the rain coming later.
Length on the white compact cargo ebike is 68", has the tallest handlebar position due to the BMX handlebar.
I will likely change it out to lower, narrower handlebar just to allow batter filtering ability between car mirrors in traffic.


Wife's replacement Fiido T1 Pro (with green grips, length 68"), I replaced the handlebar with more sweep back, lower from OEM,
shorter crankarms and smaller chainring,
short seatpost, saddle for narrower nose.

My Original recalled T1 (with purple grip, length 70"), replaced handlebar for lower & narrower than
OEM, changed saddle for narrower nose. Everything else OEM.

freckles

Hi,
I was referring to a post you made re- mail order Aliexpress ebikes from China (DTC- direct to consumer) showing the blue ecargo bike.

Re 66" length. Its not a tiny elevator but a tiny landing space to maneuver a bike to get it inside my door. Birds eye view, the landing space is rectangular, landing entrance is centered on the long side, my door is located on the short side.
I carry my bike up a few steps and roll it to the short side corner, opposite of my door, inside the landing space and then lift and swing the rear of bike to bring it fully inside the landing and parallel to long side to roll it backwards through my door.

I'm 5'2" but may of shrunk a bit. Inseam is about 28" I live in Los Angeles - terrible roads/car drivers and very little bike infrastructure. NYC still needs more but seemed like a bike infrastructure heaven (compared to LA) when I visited.
Usage- as a car replacement (commute/errands/heavy grocery shopping/hardware runs) and to ride up hills in local park.

What is the brand of your white cargo bike?

freckles

I like the white cargo bike! What brand its it? Can the bmx handlebars be angled down for a closer/lower reach or does that make it too cramped?
How is the ride quality between the white and T1 bikes? Is there a quality difference in the different brakes/hub/derailleur etc?

I would prefer a bike that is 66" max but maybe I can squeeze an 68" bike into my entrance too.
Do you know of any ebikes that are 66" or less?

cat0020

White cargo bike was purchased on Alibaba: https://www.bikeforums.net/22781343-post114.html
No brand name, just DTC from the manufacturer in China.
As mentioned before, over the last 6-7 years, I've purchased close to a dozen ebikes from different DTC sellers from Alibaba & AliExpress.
White cargo bike has slightly narrower tires than the Fiido T1, it feels more nimble in handling, with spoked wheels that are lighter than the cast wheels of Fiido T1.
I haven't put enough miles on it to tell how well the spoked wheel will hold up, but so far with about 80 miles, they seems to do fine.
Derailleur performance are about the same as Fiido T1.
I do prefer the trigger type shifter and throttle that are located on the right side for T1s, white cargo bike has thumb shifter & left side throttle.
The dual battery capacity on the white cargo bike is 36Ah (14+22), vs 20Ah on the Fiido T1.
I weight about 175 lb. plus 20-30 lb. of cargo, usually get 60 miles before I charge the battery on the T1 regardless whether it needs charge or not.
I expect the white cargo ebike to have at least 100 mi. range with me if I ever need to ride that far on a single seating with two batteries.
I rarely use the top speed on these cargo ebikes, mostly between 16-20 mph is my operating speed.

Power output of the white cargo is similar to the Fiido T1 replacement for my wife, less abrupt power output from PAS & throttle operation than the original T1.
With 5 levels of PAS, the top level still accelerates pretty quickly.
As I ride it more, I will have to determine whether I will change out the BMX handlebar for something lower & narrower.
Filtering among car mirrors in traffic is something that I've learned over decades on 2-wheel to stay safe in NYC traffic.
Narrow handlebars really allows me to filter easier.
As I get older, I find myself taking my time on my rides, not in as much of a hurry as my younger days.
Wider/taller handlebar position can relief much neck/arm/shoulder stress.
I do wish this white ebike come with a suspension seatpost, which are standard with T1.




I used to have a Lectric XP 2.0 also, It might be under 66" in total length, I'm not sure.
It served me well, but I didn't like the folding stem & handlebar arrangement, when carrying a full cargo load the folding stem/handlebar just doesn't feel as sturdy as the T1. I sold the Lectric after putting approx. 300 miles on it, before the spokes start to get loose.

Smaug1

The Aventon Sinch is a nice bike, I saw one in person at the dealer the other day. You don't have to worry about it not being strong enough because it folds. The latches on them are quite strong. The problem with them is that they're HEAVIER than they need to be because of the provisions for folding. It's not really a cargo bike; it just is a folding bike with a rack. Same for the Lectric XP 3.0.

Are you sure you need a cargo bike to do what you want? How about just something with regular sized wheels (26" or bigger) and a sturdy rack? A typical commuter, in other words. Are you going to carry more than 50 lbs. worth of stuff on the rear rack routinely? (that's a LOT of groceries or luggage, which will also necessitate the longer rack and bike length)

Speaking of length limit, you say it doesn't need to fold, but then you say it cannot be longer than 66". If it folds, it will be a LOT shorter than 66"! Just a thought.

Last thing, bike alarms and tracking are starting to be more common for eBikes, esp. the higher-end ones. With a U-lock and an alarm, I can't see your bike being a target unless you leave it overnight somewhere. Specialized now has an app that will track your bike and let you turn it off remotely in case it's stolen.

john m flores 

Too bad the Bike Friday Every-E-Day doesn't meet your needs - no throttle. It seems so much more elegant and lighter than the big-tubed bikes posted so far.

cat0020

Most models from Bike Friday is going to be north of $2K.
I've commuted on an acoustic BF Tikit for years, until the frame buckled..
cost as much as I paid for the whole bike to repair the frame and had sent it back to BF in order to repair.
I think elegance & lightweight are not as much of priority as sturdiness & weight carrying capacity for a cargo bike.

freckles

Yes, I like the Sinch and the latest update has a torque sensor. I think it can also be unlocked to go above 20mph. I agree, folding frame adds weight that I don't need and a non folding frame is stiffer/more stable (I think).

I am open to both 20" and 26" inch tired ebikes but was leaning towards the 20" with a step through frame as they seem more compact (shorter length) and believe they are easier to get on/off seat. My inseam is about 28.5", vertically challenged.

I need a compact length bike due to the tiny landing area in front of my door. I have to bring a bike up a few steps into the tiny landing area and be able to swing the rear wheel to get the bike inside the landing area and lined up to my door to wheel it inside.

I did have an idea that if its possible to easily lift the bike (via walk mode) to stand it on it's rear tire, the length won't be so limiting.
I can roll it directly inside my home and then stand it up to turn the bike around to face the front door to roll it directly outside.

This ebike will be a car replacement. And I plan to haul some heavy stuff- 5 gallon of paint, 50 lbs of wheat berries, bulk/Costco grocery shopping.
Option is to get an add on trailer for hauling heavy stuff (lower to the ground/more stable) vs long tail ( I don't want a long tail).

This ebike will be my first ebike, live in a high theft area so I don't want to lose something very dear, limiting to less than 2k as I want to be able to take it everywhere with a lock/chain/alarm!
In an ideal world, I'd get a Tern! But in my real life, I'm looking at a Tern-like bike

Leisesturm

Bicycles are not as stable as motorcycles at speed. Cyclists think they need to go the speed of traffic to be safe. They do not. They need to let traffic flow at its desired speed while they ride at a speed that is safe for them which at times might mean NO speed. I see these mopeds flitting along at 25mph and I'm like, eef. You probably wouldn't get hauled up about it but technically a Class 3 ebike can no longer use the bike lanes in most jurisdictions.

Ultra cheap Class 3 ebikes probably need to be replaced sooner than a $3K+ Class 3 ebike. Aventon or Juiced Bikes might have something around $2K but much cheaper than that and I'd just get an acoustic (is that what they call unpowered bikes these days?) model. The 35mph arterial that runs east/west for my morning commute has no bike lane. I can use it if I must but if I am going 4 miles its worth my peace of mind to add up to an additional mile to take side roads that either have bike lanes or are marked sharrows (no automobile passing).

A lot of things have to come together to make a 'real' Class 3 ebike. Look at some YouTube videos of a Class 3 ebike review. The tester is working hard, and the bike is working even harder, and even then 28mph comes very slowly and can be lost just as quickly. Most Class 3 bikes are simply Class 1 without apology. TL;DR: were I the poster I would look at a compact (24" wheel) cargo bike with or without Class 1 assist. Or a 26" wheel hybrid or citybike and a single wheel trailer.

cat0020

Cargo ebikes, even the compact ones I have currently are not particularly easy to steal, even in NYC metro where I ride mostly.
I don't leave the bike unattended, outdoors overnight. I remove the battery, seat & seatpost when I walk away from the ebike while I'm in the stores.
Unless a thief is driving a van that he can take away the whole cargo bike, a compact padlock on the brake disc is all I use to secure the bike.
Usually locked brake disc is enough to deter thieves from stealing a 60 lb. cargo bike for me.

I ride 20" fat tire ebikes because of the rough surfaces in NYC streets, may not be the best option for motor power output or pedaling efficiency.
I mostly ride between 15-18 mph in PAS 2 or PAS 3, depending on the cargo load I carry.
Rarely do I exceed 20 mph, the bike takes a while to get to top speed of 28 mph; and only when the battery is fully charged. Normally, the top speed is about 25-26 mph.
Larger/narrower wheels/tires may be better for efficiency, but if you have rough road surfaces, the spokes/rims are not likely to last long if you carry heavy rider/cargo.

Interesting low budget entry from Cannondale:
https://bikerumor.com/cannondale-adv...llroad-ebikes/

If OP is still shopping for options:
https://electrek.co/2023/05/03/here-...y-price-level/

Smaug1

Another idea: Rather than bring it inside all the time, so that the length is an issue, how about just investing in some beefy security measures where you would lock it up at home?
A U-lock with chain and a motion sensing alarm, for example.

Popping the bike up vertical to walk it around in Wheelie Mode might be an option too, though you'll have to prop the door open and let bugs in I maneuver my Lectric XP Lite in Wheelie Mode in the garage to easily get between cars to charge it. (battery's not easy to get out of it)