SoreFeet

I can't believe bike shops will stand by this new format. It's a lousy format. Basically the frame manufactures cut corners. They save money by not having to thread frames. The lack of precision on one frame will be an incurable problem. So if you happen to get a "good" frame with very high machine tolerances you will probably have a reliable system.

However if you get a dud, your frame will be a creaking mess. I simply don't see the improvement. Hollow Tech 2 or even old fashioned square taper has proven immensely reliable.

BoSoxYacht

You're half right.

Barrettscv 

I tend to agree. Hollow Tech 2 is an improvement over square taper, put both perform well. BB30, not an improvement.

coasting 

so was there a groundswell of complaints bout hollowtech and outboard bearings? Mine seem to hold up really well. Haven't had any trouble since putting the bike together years ago.

SoreFeet

Hollowtech seems to be a proven standard that Shimano still favors. Octalink was the big flop. It didn't really do much over square taper. But some people have claimed 10 thousand plus miles on original octalinks.

I think the service life of Hollowtech is variable based on riders habits. I personally like the hollowtech but square taper is also great. I had a vintage bike that had a spindle and cups. Surprisingly it just needed fresh grease.

I replaced the caged ball bearing with loose ball grade 25 bearings. To my surprise after much finicking around the darn thing was smooth as a babies butt.

Nagrom_

Pretty sure BDop debunked the "BB30 is cheaper to manufacture" a long time ago.
Use a press bearing retaining compound and you wont have creaking.


You missed this train a long time ago.

BoSoxYacht

Not that I'm aware of. Hollowtech II came out after BB30(IIRC).

Campag4life

Hollowtech and square taper suck relative to BB30. Simple fact is...creaky BB30's are due to poor installation and nothing more.
Its kind of like punishment for being ignorant.
A million dollar Ferrari GTO sucks as well if you don't know how to adjust the solid lifters or sync the Webber carbs.

thehammerdog

Is this really an issue?
I liked my 8 speed everything was flawless...so there

primov8

Both the Ridley(PF30) and the De Rosa(BB30) have been problem free. I've used Loctite 609, 680 when installing the PF/BB cups/bearings; no creaking and never an issue with the cups/bearings working themselves out of the bb shell.

Only recently I decided to remove the campy bb30 cups off the De Rosa in favor of an Enduro AC bb30 kit to be used with a pf30/bb30 specific crankset.

erief0g

being a new guy I can't add much input. My understanding, as limited as it is, is that the BB30 came about for increased torsional rigidity which allowed for increased power transfer. Not following cycling specifically I can't say how often a "dud" frame comes about but I've seen my share of frames be built for different types of racing. After watching that close tolerance design and implementation it would surprise me if any of the big bike manufacturers have issues with "dud" frames.

Also, divert to the sig. This is only my opinion and has no factual backing.

marqueemoon

Hollowtech II is a pretty solid system but not perfect. However with the right (inexpensive) tools it is easy to work with and replacement BBs are so cheap it's hard to find much to complain about.

With quality parts square taper isn't terrible either.

Carbon Unit

I have a PF30 frame waiting to be built up. I have heard that that they have fewer squeak issues that BB30. Anyone have any input on this?

SoreFeet

Nagrom...if the bearing is stiffer why must a retaining compound such as loctite be used...It's a bandaid solution. BB30 is only user serviceable if you have the bulky tool...Roadside service can't be obtained with BB30.

It's a pretty stupid idea. Bdop didn't debunk squat.

rpenmanparker 

The bearing(?) isn't stiffer, the shell is stiffer and the resulting tube connections to the BB shell also due to its bigger diameter and surface area. It also allows the larger diameter crank spindle for greater stiffness and the possibility of the spindle being aluminum for much less weight. Overall it is an inspired idea that when installed properly has been demonstrated to be trouble free. What BB is roadside serviceable? Do you carry a full length torque wrench with you in your jersey pocket on every ride? Or a crank wrench for square taper or Octalink? I don't think so. Every BB requires specialty tools. BB30 is no different.

Doolittle

I worked as a mechanic at a high-end road/tri shop this past summer and was not impressed with BB30/press-fit in general. Firstly, the bearing life is utterly abysmal. I have seen many bottom brackets that had to be replaced after a single season or less on bikes that were in otherwise good shape. Rotor's BB86 standard is especially poor in this regard as the bearings are simply too small (although Rotor is in general an awful and horribly overpriced company). Overall, I do not think that these BB's are adequately sealed and often seem cheaply made. Having to use plastic cups on a $250 FSA ceramic BB (the crumminess of ceramic bearings is a whole other thread topic) seems simply unacceptable to me.

Secondly, while it does generally work fine, I feel that creaking is far more prevalent with press-fit than say Hollowtech. BB's coming loose was not a chronic problem, but it did happen, particularly with a certain Canadian brand that begins with a C and ends with an O. I feel that in the long-term there could be some problems with repeatedly removing and installing BB's from press-fit frames. Creaking seemed to be less of a problem with alloy frames or frames with an alloy BB shell.

Thirdly, the sheer number of standards is ridiculous! I can't believe the Chris King press-fit BB came with 7 different adapters for the different and seemingly endlessly proliferating standards. I see this as a step backwards from the 68mm shell.

Finally, realistically I doubt most people would notice much of a difference between Hollowtech and press-fit, all other things being equal. Of course, this could be said about much of recent bicycle technology.

I don't mean to say that all bikes with BB30 are garbage or anything like that, and I'm sure many people ride bikes with press-fit BB's without problems. But it strikes me as a sort of technological development for its own sake, rather than responding to any kind of problem (eg. the inadequacy threaded BB's), and is not something I want on any of my bikes.

rtz549

Looks like a pretty elegant bottom bracket system:

rpenmanparker 

Didn't the development go along something like this:
- We need a way to stiffen bikes at the BB
- A larger diameter and wider shell would allow larger diameter tubes to converge at the BB thereby giving the required stiffness.
- Oh, and a larger diameter shell would allow a larger diameter spindle so we could keep stiffness while lightening the crank. That's good too.
- Oops, if we make the shell wider, we can't use outboard bearings without changing the Q-factor. So lets use inboard bearings. They will still be wide for spindle support because the shell is wider.
- If we stick with a two-piece crank, how will we attach the bearings inside the shell. There is no exposed surface to put a wrench on to tighten the bearing cup assemblies into the shell. I know, let's just press 'em in.
And the rest, as they say, is history. World's best development? Maybe not, but I think I can see how it came about.

Grambo

Your observations seem pretty disconnected with the development of the BB30/ PF30 design over the past 18 months. Admittedly I did have some bearing failure issues with my PF30 BB early on but I chalk the issues I experienced up to growing pains with a new design. The current CK PF30 BB I'm running has worked flawlessly thus far and their grease injector tool makes periodic maintenance quick and simple. I also have not had any creaking issues with any of the PF30 BBs I have run. Couple that with a 5 year warranty and CK's history of reliability and I'm feeling pretty good about the BB I'm running. Perhaps most importantly you are ignoring the design advantages BB30 / PF30 provides to frame manufacturers to develop stiffer and lighter frames not to mention stiffer and lighter cranksets. It looks as though frame builders will settle in on the PF30 variant and the number of standards is not any worse as compared to threaded / outboard bearings when you consider all the variants available from Sram, Campy and Shimano, Either get on the train or watch it pass you by .

rpenmanparker 

I am not saying I would take this position, but in light of CK's refusal to accept integrated headsets on grounds of technical inferiority, one might posit that his offering a PF30 BB is really significant. He must think the technology and implementation of it are sound. Considering the esteem in which he is held by the cycling community, that is something to take note of.

Campag4life

If you Loctite both the OD of the press in delrin bushings and the OD of the BB30 bearings, it will be dead silent.
Most PF30 and BB30's squeak if improperly installed aka Loctite isn't used.

Doolittle

I have no doubt that many people will experience no problems with their press-fit frames or bottom brackets (especially when using a Chris King product). My observations were based on working on hundreds of bikes and I mean to highlight that press-fit BB's are somewhat prone to some problems that I feel are not encountered with a good-quality, threaded setup (eg. Campy or Shimano. In my experience FSA and SRAM cranks are much more prone to creaking). Will these be eliminated with time? I don't really know, but I'll stick with threaded frames for the time being. With all this in mind, it's not like either press-fit or threaded setups are going to explode, they might just creak or not last that long.

Also, there are quite a number of press fit frame standards (7, 8?), but threaded frames are still overwhelmingly 68mm with a few 70mm.

Campag4life

Really?...lol. More like, CK has a larger profit margin with old fashioned headsets. Many integrated headsets are proprietary.

roadwarrior

Yep.

I have thousands of miles on two BB330 bikes, neer had an issue. But we knew what we were doing.

Everything sucks when you don't know what you are doing.

roadwarrior

Exactly.