Het Volk

Curious question. Would you consider Limmer Boot Grease as a potential alternative to Proofide for conditioning a Brooks saddle?

I have a canister of it, and would think it would do the same as Proofide.

merziac

Maybe, very sparingly.

I use Langlitz leather dressing, it has silicone which many here consider a big no-no so.......

It seems to work great and have been using it for several years now with no ill effects on new, old, well used and many in between.

thook

i've got a b17 and two b72's. i'd used a couple of different highly recommended products on them in not too recent past. i wish now i hadn't because i can see what some others on the forum were talking about. you don't want to use anything that will soften the leather. they actually can sag prematurely. i've had to adjust them more than i really should be

from now on i won't use anything other than proofide or a product that 99.9% resembles it. and i really don't like to be a purist. anyway, proofide's cheap enough on ebay

clubman 

This is akin to asking what oil to use on a vintage BMW motorcycle forum. Danger!
Brooks saddles are expensive enough that I won't and don't risk putting unknown volatile petro-products on my saddles. You feel free to do so but my > 3 decades of Proofide use keep me coming back. (I do prefer the older formulation)
YMMV

jonwvara 

Limmer grease! Man, that takes me back to my trailwork days in the early 70s.

Yeah, I'd probably use it. I've been known to use a little Sno-Seal on my Brooks saddles (and on my Limmers, back when I had them). But most people here are going to be aghast at the thought of using anything but Proofide.

Het Volk

Own a pair of Limmers and Limmer boot grease is just awesome stuff. However, it may soften the Brooks saddle too much based on responses here.

To me, hiking in anything but a pair of Norwegian Welt hikers seems wrong.

jonwvara 

Well, it is wrong.

Unca_Sam

What recommendations led to premature sagging?

merziac

Maybe

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Vas...Boots-Mens-10-
M/254831073356?hash=item3b551d984c:g:ngEAAOSwHpZfsDyK

And not sure about the Norwegian welt but I had pair of Vasque in HS, didn't really hike much but they were in style so......

They were the heaviest steel shank top of the line at the time that I got on clearance for a fraction of regular price.

Wore them for a couple of years, never did break in though my feet finally started to and never showed any wear

Plenty of the cool kids and my friends were amazed at them and the damage you could do and despite not being steel toe, they might as well have been, you could probably run over them with a car.

thook

i honestly don't recall offhand. i know have a partial container left of one them (i still use it for gloves and boots). i'll have to find it and retrieve the brand

edit: what i found in my cabinet is fiebing's saddle care. but, shoot...i really don't think that's the stuff i used. i recall one product being in a bottle with a swabber (wanna say nor-v-gen) and the other was a creamy product in a plastic jar. i should add neither product was something i'd read about on BF

Oldairhead 

I prefer to use mink oil on my saddles and my reasons are as follows:
My wife is an avid equestrian, one of many on her side of the family. She still rides in two of her grandmothers saddles, one of which is a side saddle. The other was a "working" saddle and was used almost daily by the grandmother before being handed down to her mother. Her mother used it daily, who as a school teacher rode a horse to the school house where she taught. My wife uses it less frequently than prior generations but still regularly. The grandparents always used mink oil to condition those saddles and over 100 years later the leather in those saddles is still soft, supple and strong. Now, maybe horse people are better at taking care of their equipment than cyclists but this is the longest running testament to a leather care product that I am personally familiar with.

People here are thinking in terms of years of longevity as evidence for their preferred product but this example spans a dozen decades or more. Personally I think that there are a number of products that will work well, the key is that using animal based oils on an animal skin product is likely to yield the best result. That and regular care and treatment of the saddle and you are good to go!

thook

Oldairhead well, that's the crux of the matter with a brook's saddle and choosing a product to use.<< "soft and supple">>. it's just what i've discovered (as others have)....the brooks leather needs to stay firm (not soft and supple) due the way it's suspended. horse saddles don't have that dynamic as the leather is not suspended. they're supported by the chassis (or whatever equestrians call it) underneath it. like you said, there's many fine products..including what you're using....that will preserve the leather very well on a brooks protecting it from weathering and drying out, etc. proofide (or any similar formula) will do that, but won't cause the fibers to go soft. it won't "condition" the leather. a brooks needs to stay firm and still ....eventually...conform to your shape. therein lies it's comfort. also, that it does flex some under your movements

anyway, not replying to argue or dissuade what you or anyone uses. if whatever you use doesn't cause it to sag prematurely, then great. a brooks should last for years, but they sure are fussier than regular saddles. the unique form of support is worth it, i suppose

KLOSHE

Can’t have a Limmer thread without a photo of limmers, about 45 years old.

Steel Charlie

It would be absolutely fascinating to discover a product that would make my Ideale saddles "soft and supple".

I can tell ya straight and true that mink oil is my fave but soft and supple it ain't

brian3069

Repeated use of any product that softens leather will eventually ruin a Brooks saddle.

Oldairhead 

Perhaps soft and supple as a description is taken out of context. Pliable but strong would be more accurate. The only failures that I have had on Brooks saddles were on those that were "firm" and not pliable. I have two on my wall of shame right now in that sad condition that I acquired second hand. Soft and supple does not equate to the leather being weak either. In western equestrian saddles the straps, skirts and cinchs must be very strong to carry the loads, yet must also be pliable (or soft and supple) for the comfort of the horse. A Brooks or other leather bicycle saddle is essential a "butt hammock" and must also be pliable but strong like equestrian saddle parts. The "strength" of the leather is generally a factor the quality and the thickness of the skin. As we know, the quality of leather these days is not what it used to be. This may be why we see more failures in modern Brooks saddles.

The primary ingredient in Proofide is tallow which is generally a mix of animal byproduct derived fats. So, like mink oil it is in the family of products which are compatible for use on animal skins. Both products will do a fine job to keep a saddle comfy with regular use, Arguing for one over the other is kind of like saying that Ford is better than Chevy when we all know that is not true!

thook

yeah, everyone knows dodge is #1

jonwvara 

TFC Limmers, at that!

repechage

silicone is the “ crack” of chemical engineers.

Het Volk

merziac

True enough and yet Langlitz entrusts their almost 75 year history and quality with it, especially here in waterlogged PDX.

https://www.langlitz.com/langlitz-history/

https://www.langlitz.com/product/leather-dressing/

Road Fan

- deleted content, see later message -

Unca_Sam

Road Fan , Selle Anatomica doesn't recommend using anything to soften their leather. They sell an acrylic waterproofing to apply to the underside of their saddles, and IIRC, the tops are meant to shed water.

I used Obenauf's Heavy Duty LP for my boots on a few Brooks saddles with good results. Just SA sealant on those saddles.

nlerner

What your foot does in a boot and what your arse does atop a saddle are really different things. I wouldn’t treat leather the same way in both cases.

Road Fan

Regarding a company trusting its long legacy to a formulation for leather dressing, that's exactly what Brooks has done with Proofide.

We're here speaking of leather dressings as if they are absolutely good for leather or absolutely destructive for leather. I think it's more horses for courses. My shoe repairman only has leather dressings for dress shoes and handbags, and some other products for baseball gloves. For baseball gloves he uses silicone for waterproofing. If he had seen it as destructive he would not be selling them, there are so many prodcts in the marketplace. He also advocates some French products for those wanting something special - he does not say it is inherently better than anything else. It could easily be that what is good for ⅛" leather in a baseball glove is not at all what is good for 5 mm leather in a bicycle saddle. Same for hiking boots versus leather saddles.

I have a great old pair of Herman's Survivor boots with steel shanks, 10" uppers, Vibram soles, and sewn welts (I think they're Norwegian welts, but I'm not sure). I think the shoes were made in New England, and I bought them around 1980. After they sat in my closet for about the last 10 years I took a good look at them, to see about wearing them outdoors on our park walks. No signficant blemishes, so I wore them on a short walk, but they were too stiff and I got a nasty blister. While waiting for it to heal, I experimented with Obenauf's paste. Three light coatings each allowed to sink it, then several days of letting the leather absorb all that oil, and they now feel much more supple. And they worked great for a 1.5 mile walk with Mrs. Road Fan. It's too soon to say there has been any harm, the shoe is far more comfortable than it was, and the degree of flexibility in the upper of the shoe is far more than what you will ever get in a bike saddle. Again, I'm not sure that what is good for hiking/hunting boot is good fo a bike saddle. But some saddle sellers and saddle makers have endorsed Obenauf's. Riv has recently sold it, and Selle AnAtomica recommended it several years ago. And Rivet recommends it.

Regarding Ideale saddles like a vintage 90 or 92, I don't have any instructions. My new one that I bought from a famous shop in 1984 did not come with any instructions. When I asked "should I use Proofide, the guy shrugged. It was very hard, I kept it but did not ride it. Last year I tried it out on a bike for a few short rides, and it fit nicely and with my added pork was decently comfortable. Since it is now going on 40 years old I added a light Obenauf coating to add some oil, which it soaked up readily. ir feels pretty good now in indoor riding. The new Ideale company, which only sells the Ideale 90, offers a leather dressing branded as Ideale. It might be worthwhile to see if they recommend it for older Ideale saddles. Regardless, I was exploring around my saddles and found some long-neglexted Brooksies. I lightly Proofided the Brooksies and my ideale 92, with a very light coating. We'll see!