06muller

Preface: I enjoy using an indoor cycling machine for fitness, and have decided I want to do my regular cycling workouts on an actual bicycle outdoors, since it's far more fun and interesting. However, after riding my father's road bike, I found it uncomfortable on my wrists and hands (and frankly unnecessary for the short 20-30 minute rides I would be doing for fitness), and took interest in finding my own bike to purchase with comfort in mind. Yes it is for fitness but it doesn't have to be fast.

The problem: I settled on a Verve 3 (although still considering an FX 3), but find myself torn between two sizes: M and L.

The details: I was measured in the Trek store as 5'10.5" with shoes on, which would put me squarely in the L size group according to the Verve 3 size chart, for which 5'9" is the tallest who should allegedly ride a Medium and also the shortest who should ride a Large. However, my inseam is 32 or 31 inches -- I buy pants with a 32 inch inseam regularly and they sometimes bunch a little at the bottom, so I guess I have a longer torso and shorter legs. On the Verve sizing chart, 30-33in is Medium and 32-35in is Large.

So, I am quite far out of the 5 foot 5 to 5 foot 9 height category for a Medium, and at nearly 5 foot 11 I am concerned that if I get the Medium I would be getting a bike that is frankly too small. However, when I test rode both, I often felt like the M was more comfortable, the reach out for the handlebars wasn't as long, the bike was "under" me.

I will try to link some photo but I am not sure if this forum will allow me to since I am new. If not, perhaps I can send a link to a member and then can add it here?

[Tried to put link here, but yup it's not allowed until after 10 posts... Guess I will hold off on the photos for now, but I feel they are the best way to see how the bikes fit me. They are imgbb links]

I think you will be able to tell the L is on the right. Sorry for the poor quality photo. I can try to upload higher quality, closer up photos at a later time.

What I am wondering is, would it be bad to get a Medium? The Large FX 3 felt more like my size but the Large Verve just feels so large. But I am also wayyy out of the M category on the height sizing chart...

Does the size simply correspond to the length of the frame, as in, the wheels are further apart? And otherwise they're the same size?

Iride01 

If you can ride the bikes in the conditions you'll normally ride them in, then do that. Some bike shops will let you and some bike shops won't. Mine did let me and the size bike I liked from just the parking lot ride was not the bike I liked after riding each for 10 miles.

Numbness in your hands and wrist was likely not so much about the size of your father's bike but more about how you hold your hands. Wrists need to be straight. You don't want the palm of your hand supporting your weight.

You might want to look at some of the cruiser style bikes from Trek if you are only going to ride for 20 minutes or so. They'll have a nice cushy saddle and a geometry for relaxed upright seating. And they tend to be very inexpensive too. But many bike shops might not stock them.

Welcome to BF. If you have a pic you want us to see before you get your 10 posts, just upload it to theGallery here on BF and tell us it's there. Or learn how to obfuscate the URL where the pic is hosted.

10 Wheels

Where are you located at? City State.

06muller

How did you ask/conduct a 10 mile test ride? Did you actually take the bike home or something? I rode in the parking lot but my watch says I rode about 2.5 miles total so it wasn't super short. I was hopping on and off each size and comparing directly.

The hand/wrist pain seemed to occur regardless of how I held the handlebars but I also do a lot of out of saddle riding since I am just getting these short intense 30 minute rides in, and I think I also haven't found a comfortable saddle so I'm afraid to put weight on the saddle and so I end up supporting my weight with my wrists. The reason I like the Verve and more upright bikes is that when I am riding out of the saddle, the weight is going to the pedals and my hands are basically just holding the bars, not supporting any weight.

What cruiser style bikes are you talking about? I thought the Verve was their most relaxed/upright bike.

What I would love to do would be something like a 15 day rental, but from perusing their site, the only bikes they rent out are e-bikes.

I wasn't sure if I was allowed to post the URL to images. It's at ibb and after the slash is "0FT5Yw4"

I do know that Trek has a 30 day return policy but I really don't want to purchase a bike without being ~90% sure it's the right size and basically use that return policy as a long test ride -- that feels wrong to me.

06muller

I'm in NKY, near both Louisville and Cincinnati

pepperbelly

Wrist and hand pain could be from the saddle being set too far back.
If the M feels better to you ignore the chart. You are right on the cusp between the 2 sizes. The chart can’t be that precise. People are different even if the same height. Leg length and torso length will vary among people that are the same height.

Iride01 

These pics?



https://ibb.co/0FT5Yw4

For my test ride, the bike shop is about a mile from the local MUP that I ride quite a bit for my short rides. So I just left from the shop and rode down the road to the trail head. I didn't test ride the bikes I was actually considering buying, but bikes that had the same frame with lower tier level components on them.

The Trek Electra bikes are the cruisers I was talking about. If you want comfort, are not planning on riding like a adrenaline crazed junkie, and for short rides were leisure is more important than performance, then some of these will give a very comfortable relaxing slow ride. Look for the ones with the very slack seat tube and wide comfy saddle with springs.

https://electra.trekbikes.com/us/en_...-out-/c/EP115/

I don't have one, as I'm usually that adrenaline crazed junkie and riding for 1½ to 2 hours at a time. But if I ever was to talk my wife into a bike, this is the type she'd probably want, and I'd get one too for myself as I feel it'd curb my desire to go fast.

bruce19

Before aging and neck surgery I was 5' 10.5" with a 32.5" inseam. My inseam is still 32.5" and a traditionally sized 54 or 55 frame is perfect for me. In Canyon bikes that's a Small but in most bikes its a Medium I believe. FWIW a perfect virtual TT is 55.

wheelreason

Medium

06muller

I guess I'm not positive if the M feels better since I'm so new to bikes I don't know what "better" is supposed to feel like. And technically since the ranges for each size are 4 inches -- 5'5 to 5'9 and 5'9 to 6'1, at 5'10.5 I am closer to the middle of the L range than the edge of it.

I dunno if bike sizes are like T shirt sizes where, if you get the "wrong" size it might look odd but if you like it it doesn't matter, or more akin to shoe sizes where a size too large or too small is likely to cause pain and issues.

06muller

Yeah those are the ones, thanks! As far as a test ride, I suppose I could ask to ride for longer but I don't know how much it would help. I don't really know what I'm looking for.

When I get on the Medium after riding the Large it feels a little squirrelly under me and kinda too small. But then I quickly get used to it and it starts to feel more nimble and playful and fun as opposed to "too small", and then when I hop on the large it feels cumbersome and like I'm reaching out really far (but that can probably be adjusted anyways right?), but then after riding it for a little it feels more natural.

I'm also still considering the large FX 3 which kinda felt size-wise in between both Verves, and I know it is not built as much for comfortable cruising but I am thinking that for 15-30 minute rides I may be overthinking the wrist/hand pain I got from my father's road bike, and I might be fine on the FX3 too.

RoadWearier

I have your exact dimensions. I felt comfortable on a large fx3. Certainly wasn't too tall. Obviously riding it for a few miles is the best way to tell. I did feel like I was on my wrists a bunch even with the seat adjusted properly which maybe a sign I was still leaning forward too much. But I'd still guess large for you.

I would also recommend the fx3 over the Verve all day long.
Unless you just have to sit straight up on a bike you are going to feel like a wind sail and will feel much slower. Unless you REALLY want a very casual ride I'd go with the fx3
​​​​​

SoSmellyAir

To 06muller:
1. I am also 5'-10.5".
2. Cycling inseam is generally longer than pants inseam, because (a) cycling inseam is measured from your crotch (to accurately reflect your leg length), and (b) you want your pants to end at your ankles rather than touching the floor. In other words, you would need to wear some super tight pants pulled up to your belly button for the two measurements to be the same.
3. My first bike (in adulthood) was a Trek FX 2, size 56 (i.e., L), even though the standover height is barely sufficient, and all three of my subsequently acquired road bikes are size 54.
4. If the FX 3 feels better to you, just get it instead of the Verve.

Maelochs

[tl;dr: Whatever you buy will be fine and you can adjust or even replace it .... don't stress.]

Maybe not well-suited for the frame you are choosing but consider this: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/S...ulatorBike.jsp

Every human body is different in shape and proportion. Three men (or five women ro whatever) can have the same height and inseam and be completely different in every proportion, with wider or narrower hips or shoulders, longer or shorter arms ... even shorter thighs or lower legs. Each would need a different sized frame, with more or less eat post exposed, different stem, maybe different bar dimensions, to be comfortable on a bike.

Things to remember---some bikes won't feel good until you have developed the muscles to need to ride them. Most road bikes are not comfortable fro new riders because they don't hold enough weight on their legs, and either sit On the saddle or lean on their arms, leading to wrist, neck, shoulder, and buttock pain ... but after a few months of riding find the same bike to be very comfortable even over long distances.

Bikes big soft seats often feel comfortable out of the box, but if you ride more than a dozen miles the seat might start to chafe and interfere with your pedaling.

Upright rising positions are fine. They work. I prefer a little forward curve in my spine to absorb shock (so my body bobs up and down with my waist as a pivot, instead of my spine compressing) but for short rides, *or with a sprung seat) even a bolt-upright posture is just fine. However, you will find after a while thet pushing the wind aside takes a lot of effort, and more as you go faster (which will happen naturally as you keep riding.) You will naturally want to lean into the wind, and will want bars which support you in that position.

However, you might never ride more than 10-20 miles, a few times a week, at a walking pace, and never care about all that. That is absolutely fine too.

Here is the good news---bikes are Very adjustable. You can raise and lower the seat post, raise and lower the bars (depending on the type of fork and headset this can be easy or complicated .... if you have a threadless headset make sure the steerer is long enough) and you can swap the stem for a whole variety of adjustments. You can also by handlebars in numerous shapes and sizes to put the hand position exactly where it suits your arm length, posture, shoulder width, and other preferences. In fact, after you have the bike home, you will almost certainly be making small adjustments over time to get the seat height and position, and the bars, exactly where you want them.

I am sorry I cannot say "Buy Frame X." * have no way of knowing what suits you now or what will suit you in the future. All I can suggest are a few things-----

If you buy small you can stretch the frame with seat post, stem, and bar adjustments. if you buy big you can shrink the frame with a hacksaw and a welder.

If you buy too big or too small, you will not be comfortable and will not enjoy riding the bike.

Your body will adapt to the bike over time, but some things cannot adapt, like limb length. Core strength will improve, and leg strength, and riding position, will all change and increase the range of what you find "comfortable,"

And Only you can decide if you are going to be happy with some sort of ride. if you are sure you will never want to go faster or farther, you could get a beach cruiser and be fine. But don't let the discomfort of a bike which might not have been fit to you or suited to your current capacity, deter you from considering longer rides or more aggressive bikes. Road bikes are not comfortable at first ... but after a few years on the Verve or FX, you might find yourself eyeing one ....

Which brings me ... at long last ... to the point of all of this:

You Will Not Screw Up.

No matter what you buy it will be useful and ridable. It is guaranteed that you will find things you want to change or adjust, but you are Not going to buy an unridable bike. Based on your posts, you are too smart and too careful. Whichever model and size, you will be able to adjust it to suit your basic needs.

If in a year or three you have dialed in exactly how you like to ride, and decide to buy a different bike, you will ... but the intervening years and miles on whatever you buy now will not have been wasted, because you will have been enjoying your bike.

keep us posted.

freeranger

I"m 5'9" barefoot. Pants are a 30" inseam. A few years back, I was considering an FX. Went to a LBS to try a couple. Medium felt way small. Large fit fine. This was an FX, didn't try a Verve.

06muller

Looks like I can only post 5 replies within 24 hours, don't know if that's overall forum rules or just because my account is still new. I'll try to respond to everyone here where I had some thoughts. I'm grateful for the feedback so far. I'm still curious what the un-changeable differences between the two bikes are -- such as, if I were to get a Medium, and try to make it into a Large in all possible ways, what would be left that I couldn't realistically change? I could get a longer stem, larger handlebars, a longer seat post... But the frame itself would be both shorter and not as tall, right? By how much?

Yup, that totally makes sense, I was just shocked to learn I was smack dab in the middle of the L category, as opposed to being right on the cusp of M and L, which makes me feel it's less likely I'm simply oddly proportioned.. Perhaps the L I rode was still not adjusted properly.

Yup! Luckily from all my research I had already learned this -- and I will be looking for a firm saddle that fits me properly.


Ha, this certainly makes it sound easier to make an M feel like an L than the other way around!

Meaning, if the M was "too small" I would already know?

will do!

Yeah, the FX 3 in Large felt like it fit well. but I do really like the upright positioning on the Verve. Although maybe I could get an FX 3 if it's comfortable for sporty fitness rides and then also get a Townie Go or something for really relaxed rides since that's far more upright than even the Verve is.

I didn't find the Verve and FX that different for short rides, just more leaned forward on the FX. I do most of my riding out of the saddle, since my neighborhood is very hilly, so I am either standing up to go up a hill, or sitting momentarily to ride down one.

06muller

I have a reply that I think is awaiting mod review, maybe because of its length since I quoted everyone. But thanks for the advice so far, I have taken it all into account. I still can't decide, the Medium keeps looking comically small on the picture to me but the Large felt too big. I'll hopefully figure it out when I go back into the store tomorrow.

Maelochs

Another thought .... ask the shop if you can buy it and bring it back in a couple days if you keep it in as-new conditi0n, to trade for a different size. Pretty much they can only say yes or no .....

SoSmellyAir

Although you can reposition two of the three key touch points (handlebar and saddle) within reason, you cannot change the distance between the bottom bracket (i.e., the center of the circle formed when you pedal) and the front wheel axle unless you buy a different fork. This affects how much toe overlap you have, i.e., the overlap between the front tire and the front of your shoe when the corresponding pedal is as far forward as possible.

Comparing M vs. L on the geometry chart for the Verve, the M has a 2.3 cm shorter Effective Top Tube (E), and a 1 cm lower Frame Stack (N) than the L.

06muller

They told me 30 days is what I had to return it, I assumed that meant in like-new condition. However, assuming something doesn't feel way off, I don't know how I'd know to return for a new size. In theory I could buy both and ride them both for 30 days and decide which one to return but that sounds like a lot of headache.

Okay so the M is about ~1 inch shorter from the center to how far out I have to reach. That explains why the L felt like I was reaching out so far. The stack height I highly doubt I would notice -- that just means it's 0.5 or so inches taller right?

I think as long as I won't hurt myself, fall over top of the bike going downhill, or something like that, I'll just go with the M.

smd4

To me, you look bunched up on the M. I'd suggest the L.

But ultimately, it's your call.

SoSmellyAir

Yes, that appears to be the case, but we don't know whether the saddle is set at the same position relative to the bottom bracket on both sizes. A valid comparison would (at a minimum) require that the saddle be set at the same distance from the bottom bracket on both sizes.

Calsun

What varies greatly with bike sizes is the length of the top tube and so the distance between the seat post and the handlebar stem. The stem can be replaced to increase the distance from the seat to the handlebars by an inch or two but the frame size still should be in the ball park for the rider. I have 4 bikes, both road and mountain bikes, and the distance from the seat to the handlebar is the same on all of them.

When I am adjusting the seat on a bike I ride for 15-20 minutes to warm up my legs before I make any adjustments. Otherwise what feels comfortable with my muscles and tendons not being limber is not going to provide an accurate feel for prolonged rides on the bike.

It is also very different to be doing riding in town on city streets where a more upright position can be helpful and where wider tires to absorb road bumps makes for a more comfortable ride. Different on gravel and dirt roads and still different for riding on hilly terrain on paved roads. Where one expects to be doing most of their riding affects what bike is better suited for them.

There is no substitute for experience and some value if one is starting out to buy a used bike and spend some time on it before spending a lot of money on a new bike. There are also some excellent bikes for sale on Craigslist and one can save more than 50% of the price for these bikes when new.

smd4

Man, I miss the days when you could order a bike in 15 or 18 different sizes, by centimeter increments...I mean, S/M/L? Really?

Iride01 

Don't forget ML and XL. 15 seems like a lot more than I remember. What brands were a cm apart? I remember that Chicago Schwinn's were 1 inch apart in sizes, but that's 2.54 CM.