Rear Paragon dropout with hole for internal cable question.
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,682
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1163 Post(s)
Liked 442 Times
in
315 Posts
Rear Paragon dropout with hole for internal cable question.
I have a lovely Wittson titanium road disc “Illuminati” frame that takes mechanical (cable actuated) shifting. The frame is Lithuanian and I purchased it in an eBay sale from the framebuilder.
It comes with a cable liner running the length length of the frame from an orifice in the headtube, under 2 little guides on the interior of the bottom bracket and out the rear dropout. He leaves some of the liner hanging out of both ends. He provides 2 ferrules with a little bit of liner sticking out. I presumes they were to insert into the head tube openings. I got no instructions on how to run the internal cabling. He did answer a few of my questions early on, but this latest question I have not received an answer to.
It is: how to run the housing loop out the Paragon dropout for the rear derailleur?
Here is a picture: (thanks for any help)
#2
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,682
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1163 Post(s)
Liked 442 Times
in
315 Posts
The opening for the rear cable liner is pretty small. I don’t just want to butt the rear housing loop up against that washer or whatever it is. I was hoping that the opening in the dropout would be for a ferrule for a positive connection. Right now I’m stumped. I’m sure that Mr. Vitas Zukauskas of Wittson will get back with me eventually but in the meantime I thought I would ask the question here on the framebuilders forum since these are Made In USA titanium dropouts.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,075
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4201 Post(s)
Liked 3,858 Times
in
2,306 Posts
I suspect that the cable guide liners are there only to ease installing a cable and not to really do much more. Some will say they might reduce friction but the liners will really only be complete at the BB corners in cable routing. Elsewhere the liner will be pushed in the tube and/or cut down flush with the frame port.
If I am correct, when replacing the cables in the future will take some care to not loose the run through the frame, as in don't just pull the inner cables out without re establishing a liner through the frame first. Andy
If I am correct, when replacing the cables in the future will take some care to not loose the run through the frame, as in don't just pull the inner cables out without re establishing a liner through the frame first. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
Likes For Andrew R Stewart:
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,266
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 714 Post(s)
Liked 800 Times
in
475 Posts
Those dropouts were made in the USA, but that hole was made by the builder. It looks like a Di2 sized port, but it should work fine with a cable housing ferrule butted against it. There are shifter cable ferrules(Jagwire or SRAM?) that have a plastic extension that sticks out the end and would fit in that hole. In any event, the cable will keep the housing centered on the hole.
Likes For dsaul:
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,682
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1163 Post(s)
Liked 442 Times
in
315 Posts
Those dropouts were made in the USA, but that hole was made by the builder. It looks like a Di2 sized port, but it should work fine with a cable housing ferrule butted against it. There are shifter cable ferrules(Jagwire or SRAM?) that have a plastic extension that sticks out the end and would fit in that hole. In any event, the cable will keep the housing centered on the hole.
Do I just push then cable in through the liner, then once the inner cable is in place, remove the liner?
I'm still confused here. Thanks for your interest in my original query however.
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,682
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1163 Post(s)
Liked 442 Times
in
315 Posts
I suspect that the cable guide liners are there only to ease installing a cable and not to really do much more. Some will say they might reduce friction but the liners will really only be complete at the BB corners in cable routing. Elsewhere the liner will be pushed in the tube and/or cut down flush with the frame port.
If I am correct, when replacing the cables in the future will take some care to not loose the run through the frame, as in don't just pull the inner cables out without re establishing a liner through the frame first. Andy
If I am correct, when replacing the cables in the future will take some care to not loose the run through the frame, as in don't just pull the inner cables out without re establishing a liner through the frame first. Andy
#7
Senior Member
My solution is if the id of the hole the cable comes out of is 1/4" buy a closed end stainless steel bottle boss. Drill out the internal threads of the boss to near the bottom to fit the cable housing, drill a small hole for the cable to go through the closed end and insert into the chainstay
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,682
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1163 Post(s)
Liked 442 Times
in
315 Posts
My solution is if the id of the hole the cable comes out of is 1/4" buy a closed end stainless steel bottle boss. Drill out the internal threads of the boss to near the bottom to fit the cable housing, drill a small hole for the cable to go through the closed end and insert into the chainstay
That is a pretty small hole. I think I have some stepped ferules around somewhere that I may try. I don't think the stepped part is quite that small in diameter though.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,075
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4201 Post(s)
Liked 3,858 Times
in
2,306 Posts
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
Likes For Andrew R Stewart:
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,682
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1163 Post(s)
Liked 442 Times
in
315 Posts
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,266
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 714 Post(s)
Liked 800 Times
in
475 Posts
The bottle boss solution is only applicable if there is a hole in the frame with no stop for the cable housing. (the cable housing goes through the hole with nothing to stop it)
#12
Senior Member
Nova 99 cents https://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle...TTLE-BOSS.html
#13
Senior Member
I see absolutely no benefit to adding a bottle boss to this situation. There is functionally no difference between butting a cable ferrule against that hole in the dropout or putting that ferrule in a bored out bottle boss and butting that against the hole. The cable tension holds them in place in both cases and the bottle boss just adds an unnecessary piece.
The bottle boss solution is only applicable if there is a hole in the frame with no stop for the cable housing. (the cable housing goes through the hole with nothing to stop it)
The bottle boss solution is only applicable if there is a hole in the frame with no stop for the cable housing. (the cable housing goes through the hole with nothing to stop it)
Not quite as clean as the great bottle boss idea you could find a small washer the housing won't fit through and butt it up to the hole, housing/cable tension will keep it in place
#14
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,696 Times
in
2,517 Posts
the suggestion of the bottle boss is to make a stopped ferrule if the hole is so big that housing will go right into the hole. I have to say that I'm totally confused about what the builder's intent was here. But I would try to find out before doing anything radical.
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,682
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1163 Post(s)
Liked 442 Times
in
315 Posts
the suggestion of the bottle boss is to make a stopped ferrule if the hole is so big that housing will go right into the hole. I have to say that I'm totally confused about what the builder's intent was here. But I would try to find out before doing anything radical.
I would like to pull that housing liner out of the hole after I run a stainless steel cable through the frame. Then I will check and see if one of the little ferules (provided) with the little tubing length that sticks out will anchor the housing loop a little better.
I will post an update with a few more pictures and to report back about anything I hear back from Wittson.
PS: I purchased a 2nd one of these Wittson Illuminati titanium disc frames from eBay recently because I couldn't resist the deal (the frame without the fork started at like 1,000 euros, so like ~$1,400 without the fork). I had to purchase the Columbus Futura fork separately.
#16
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 44 Times
in
23 Posts
If it is deep enough and wide enough, could you just drill out the bush in the drop out to form a counterbore for the cable ferrule to locate into. Obviously do not go all the way through, just enough to locate the ferrule securely. 3mm would be enough.
You can't get simpler than that.
If you do try this make sure you put a tube or something over your drill bit to stop it drawing itself right through. And use a good quality, brand new drill bit.
You can't get simpler than that.
If you do try this make sure you put a tube or something over your drill bit to stop it drawing itself right through. And use a good quality, brand new drill bit.
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,682
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1163 Post(s)
Liked 442 Times
in
315 Posts
The builder emailed me back.
He says the Teflon liner is supposed to remain on the frame and be trimmed to fit. He said that the 2 nose pieces provided are for inserting ito the headtube.
I got no specific direction about which which kind of ferrule to use for the rear derailleur loop.
He says the Teflon liner is supposed to remain on the frame and be trimmed to fit. He said that the 2 nose pieces provided are for inserting ito the headtube.
I got no specific direction about which which kind of ferrule to use for the rear derailleur loop.
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,682
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1163 Post(s)
Liked 442 Times
in
315 Posts
Well I removed the derailleur hanger which then allowed me to pop out the pictured flanged ferrule which sticks into the chainstay.
I measured the internal diameter of the stooped hole (with a hole to run the inner wire) @ 4.4mm.
I had a hard time fitting 4mm compressionless housing in there (without a ferrule). I will try some of my other compressionless derailleur housing. I’m hoping I don’t have to shave off some of the plastic coating in order to get it to fit.
I measured the internal diameter of the stooped hole (with a hole to run the inner wire) @ 4.4mm.
I had a hard time fitting 4mm compressionless housing in there (without a ferrule). I will try some of my other compressionless derailleur housing. I’m hoping I don’t have to shave off some of the plastic coating in order to get it to fit.