Gravel Bike Stem Length?
03-22-20, 01:58 PM
#26
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Can we assume that you believe your saddle is in the ideal fore/aft position relative to the BB and you maybe shouldn't try sliding that forward a little bit?
03-22-20, 02:53 PM
#27
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[QUOTE=HTupolev;21374222
Your phrasing "a bike designed for a 110mm stem" indicates that a given frame has an optimal stem length independent of the rider,.[/QUOTE]
Bike manufacturers do this all the time when they provide a stem for a bike, that stem being what they feel is appropriate for riders likely to fit different size frames. I was surprised that Cannondale provided a 90cm stem on my medium Topstone, which has a 56 ETT. That seemed short to me and I tend to use a 100 or 110. But that’s me, so I likely have a longer torso (well. I know I do).
Your phrasing "a bike designed for a 110mm stem" indicates that a given frame has an optimal stem length independent of the rider,.[/QUOTE]
Bike manufacturers do this all the time when they provide a stem for a bike, that stem being what they feel is appropriate for riders likely to fit different size frames. I was surprised that Cannondale provided a 90cm stem on my medium Topstone, which has a 56 ETT. That seemed short to me and I tend to use a 100 or 110. But that’s me, so I likely have a longer torso (well. I know I do).
03-22-20, 05:01 PM
#28
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Bike manufacturers do this all the time when they provide a stem for a bike, that stem being what they feel is appropriate for riders likely to fit different size frames. I was surprised that Cannondale provided a 90cm stem on my medium Topstone, which has a 56 ETT. That seemed short to me and I tend to use a 100 or 110. But that’s me, so I likely have a longer torso (well. I know I do).
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03-22-20, 06:40 PM
#29
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Bike manufacturers do this all the time when they provide a stem for a bike, that stem being what they feel is appropriate for riders likely to fit different size frames. I was surprised that Cannondale provided a 90cm stem on my medium Topstone, which has a 56 ETT. That seemed short to me and I tend to use a 100 or 110. But that’s me, so I likely have a longer torso (well. I know I do).
03-22-20, 06:41 PM
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They have to put a stem on a bike to sell it. I guarantee the number of companies that worry about fitting riders is pretty small. Custom builders, maybe. Fitting production bikes is the province of bike shops.
03-22-20, 07:32 PM
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That's a different issue. Obviously bike manufacturers make an assumption about the shape of a typical rider on a given frame permutation, and choose a stem per that assumption. What Chas is delving into is something else: the degree to which a given stem length produces "correct" handling for a given frameset independent of who the rider is.
03-28-20, 07:03 PM
#32
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Stem Length...
Hey guys, as the OP I wanted to update you guys on my situation. I'm sorry it took so long I had no idea this thread took off like this. So I have been out for 6 rides on my 2020 Norco Search XR A-1 58cm and I am loving the new gravel bike! As I said this bike came with a 110mm stem from the factory, I swapped this out with a 100mm Fizik stem with a 6* rise. I have it in the highest position using the 6* rise. While I installed this new stem I left the bars higher rotated leaving the hoods closer.
I went and got a very remedial bike fit done yesterday, not the greatest but they said my knee relation to the pedal suggested my seat could even go back a bit. It is currently in the exact middle of the clamp.
After 6 rides I am getting used to the stretch a little. I am going to ride it more but I do feel like the hoods are too far forward and my elbows are almost locked straight when in them.
I am on a 58cm and according to Norco's website it's what I need. The next size down is a 55.5cm and I don't think I want that. Let me say that the frame and seat post exposed suggest and feel like I am on the right size bike. The frame feels good to me it's solely the reach to the bars I'm not liking.
I have researched numbers and charts a tonne in the last few months and granted this is not a compact gravel bike frame with high stack and low reach like say a Specialized Diverge or Giant Revolt. This Norco seems to have a little longer toptube and more reach, tiny bit lower stack like a road bike Geo much like a Trek Checkpoint. Actually the Canyon Grail AL 7.0 seems to have very similar geometry if not even a tiny bit bigger in size L than my 58cm Norco. Canyon uses a 90mm stem on their L Grail 7.0 AL this bike does not have the hover bars just standard set up.
I am going to ride this Norco as it for the next little while before I do anything, if I do anything I will order a 90mm stem and dial the seat in a little more. Thanks
I went and got a very remedial bike fit done yesterday, not the greatest but they said my knee relation to the pedal suggested my seat could even go back a bit. It is currently in the exact middle of the clamp.
After 6 rides I am getting used to the stretch a little. I am going to ride it more but I do feel like the hoods are too far forward and my elbows are almost locked straight when in them.
I am on a 58cm and according to Norco's website it's what I need. The next size down is a 55.5cm and I don't think I want that. Let me say that the frame and seat post exposed suggest and feel like I am on the right size bike. The frame feels good to me it's solely the reach to the bars I'm not liking.
I have researched numbers and charts a tonne in the last few months and granted this is not a compact gravel bike frame with high stack and low reach like say a Specialized Diverge or Giant Revolt. This Norco seems to have a little longer toptube and more reach, tiny bit lower stack like a road bike Geo much like a Trek Checkpoint. Actually the Canyon Grail AL 7.0 seems to have very similar geometry if not even a tiny bit bigger in size L than my 58cm Norco. Canyon uses a 90mm stem on their L Grail 7.0 AL this bike does not have the hover bars just standard set up.
I am going to ride this Norco as it for the next little while before I do anything, if I do anything I will order a 90mm stem and dial the seat in a little more. Thanks
Last edited by grannygears; 03-28-20 at 07:12 PM.
05-23-20, 07:53 PM
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Stem length
Hi guys, same happened to me. Just bought Giant Toughtroad Slr Gx 1 2019. Im 184 cms with 34 iseam. I went to the L size ( TT58) and 389 reach.
the size chart Was kind of confusing. It suposed to fit me but it felt like the hoods are to far away.
this model goes kind of this:
M 170cm - 180cms
M/L 175 cms - 185 cms
L 180 cms - 190 cms
i ride enduro and this is my first drop bar.
Ive ridden this bike for 5 times already, 1 hr -2hr every time but i stardted to feel lil payne at the lower back and kind of pression in tha saddle.
what do you recommed? A 80mm - 70mm stem? Or get a risser one. I currently have a 100mm, +8degree. Stem
the size chart Was kind of confusing. It suposed to fit me but it felt like the hoods are to far away.
this model goes kind of this:
M 170cm - 180cms
M/L 175 cms - 185 cms
L 180 cms - 190 cms
i ride enduro and this is my first drop bar.
Ive ridden this bike for 5 times already, 1 hr -2hr every time but i stardted to feel lil payne at the lower back and kind of pression in tha saddle.
what do you recommed? A 80mm - 70mm stem? Or get a risser one. I currently have a 100mm, +8degree. Stem
05-24-20, 08:37 AM
#34
Riding like its 1990
You're probably in the right range and small changes will pay off but also work on flexibility as well. Your bars are even with the saddle now, the hoods are turned up to shorten the reach as well. If you keep moving in that direction you might end up with the hoods where you are used to a flat bar being and no other hand position will be useable. You want three positions to be useable.
We always like to blame the bike, and much of bike fit is to fit it to our own body shortcomings and issues, but some "issues" need to be fixed on us.
More flexibility will help and fit can change over time. It takes a while to get used to a more aero position, even slightly.
For most flat bar riders the position is rather upright to get the weight back and the decent. So even riding road hoods is more stretched. The neck and back muscles need to get used to it and the hamstrings need to be flexible.
Most people don't hinge at the hip, they keep their pelvis relatively perpendicular and round the back to reach the bars.
The Phred fit.
When this happens the lower back has to fire up to balance the spine and will also fire when pedaling. Lower back pain. Then we raise the bars, shorten stem so we can match our pelvic tilt and we feel better but the reach is so short we can never use the drops without again bowing the back. So long rides need aero bars because weight is placed on the elbows, the back is finally allowed to flatten and the hip is finally forced to hinge (or the aero bars are placed really high).
As flexibility gets better and there is more hinge at the hip, your effective reach lengthens and the back can flatten. It's a physical process as well. Riding more doesn't always fix problems, sometimes it makes them worse/creates the imbalance.
We always like to blame the bike, and much of bike fit is to fit it to our own body shortcomings and issues, but some "issues" need to be fixed on us.
More flexibility will help and fit can change over time. It takes a while to get used to a more aero position, even slightly.
For most flat bar riders the position is rather upright to get the weight back and the decent. So even riding road hoods is more stretched. The neck and back muscles need to get used to it and the hamstrings need to be flexible.
Most people don't hinge at the hip, they keep their pelvis relatively perpendicular and round the back to reach the bars.
The Phred fit.
When this happens the lower back has to fire up to balance the spine and will also fire when pedaling. Lower back pain. Then we raise the bars, shorten stem so we can match our pelvic tilt and we feel better but the reach is so short we can never use the drops without again bowing the back. So long rides need aero bars because weight is placed on the elbows, the back is finally allowed to flatten and the hip is finally forced to hinge (or the aero bars are placed really high).
As flexibility gets better and there is more hinge at the hip, your effective reach lengthens and the back can flatten. It's a physical process as well. Riding more doesn't always fix problems, sometimes it makes them worse/creates the imbalance.
Last edited by thenomad; 05-24-20 at 08:40 AM.
06-07-20, 08:27 AM
#35
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You're probably in the right range and small changes will pay off but also work on flexibility as well. Your bars are even with the saddle now, the hoods are turned up to shorten the reach as well. If you keep moving in that direction you might end up with the hoods where you are used to a flat bar being and no other hand position will be useable. You want three positions to be useable.
We always like to blame the bike, and much of bike fit is to fit it to our own body shortcomings and issues, but some "issues" need to be fixed on us.
More flexibility will help and fit can change over time. It takes a while to get used to a more aero position, even slightly.
For most flat bar riders the position is rather upright to get the weight back and the decent. So even riding road hoods is more stretched. The neck and back muscles need to get used to it and the hamstrings need to be flexible.
Most people don't hinge at the hip, they keep their pelvis relatively perpendicular and round the back to reach the bars.
The Phred fit.
When this happens the lower back has to fire up to balance the spine and will also fire when pedaling. Lower back pain. Then we raise the bars, shorten stem so we can match our pelvic tilt and we feel better but the reach is so short we can never use the drops without again bowing the back. So long rides need aero bars because weight is placed on the elbows, the back is finally allowed to flatten and the hip is finally forced to hinge (or the aero bars are placed really high).
As flexibility gets better and there is more hinge at the hip, your effective reach lengthens and the back can flatten. It's a physical process as well. Riding more doesn't always fix problems, sometimes it makes them worse/creates the imbalance.
We always like to blame the bike, and much of bike fit is to fit it to our own body shortcomings and issues, but some "issues" need to be fixed on us.
More flexibility will help and fit can change over time. It takes a while to get used to a more aero position, even slightly.
For most flat bar riders the position is rather upright to get the weight back and the decent. So even riding road hoods is more stretched. The neck and back muscles need to get used to it and the hamstrings need to be flexible.
Most people don't hinge at the hip, they keep their pelvis relatively perpendicular and round the back to reach the bars.
The Phred fit.
When this happens the lower back has to fire up to balance the spine and will also fire when pedaling. Lower back pain. Then we raise the bars, shorten stem so we can match our pelvic tilt and we feel better but the reach is so short we can never use the drops without again bowing the back. So long rides need aero bars because weight is placed on the elbows, the back is finally allowed to flatten and the hip is finally forced to hinge (or the aero bars are placed really high).
As flexibility gets better and there is more hinge at the hip, your effective reach lengthens and the back can flatten. It's a physical process as well. Riding more doesn't always fix problems, sometimes it makes them worse/creates the imbalance.
Thnx for the reply.
I've been stretching before every ride and i definetly can say that helps a lot. No more back of neck pain, even after riding 70 kms. The only thing, my knees keep hurting when i start pedaling. When i bought the bike i move the saddle forward to compensate the reach. Maybe ill get the shorter stem (80mm vs. 100mm stock) and move back the saddle a bit.
I would like to experiment using a 20° rise instead of my 8° but cant find one on Internet right now.
06-07-20, 09:40 AM
#36
Riding like its 1990
That's great! Keep it up and it'll pay off.
Lots to think about but pick only one to change a small bit at a time, set a baseline fit and change one thing, Ride the same route, etc.
Just keep adjusting the fit till it feels good. Can't guarantee that your knees may not complain sometimes but it should not be a problem.
New riders tend to have low cadence, perhaps 50-65 as well and shift up too soon. This puts stress on the front of the knee. With time and attention/muscle efficiency, the cadence can go up to 80-90 +.
Of course knee tracking issues due to tightness, injuries, skeletal frame, and belly in the way may cause the knee to track out, increasing stress.
Typically knee over pedal is a good starting point, as is correct saddle height so that the knee isn't too far in flexion at the bottom of the power stroke.(assuming pedal spindle on ball of foot region)
Moving saddle forward increases knee flexion and moving saddle back lengthens the leg. Typically back of knee pain might mean saddle too far back or high, front of knee pain might mean too far forward to low.
I always set the height and fore/aft saddle, tilt, then feel out the reach and height. The reach/height will change with fitness and type of riding but the saddle really won't once you find a good setup. Frame geometry changes with different bikes but in very small ways. Certain body metrics don't.
As you ride you can scoot forward and backward on a good saddle and you'll feel differences climbing and charging on flats etc.
Either way, keep riding, enjoy it, get a stem if you want and see how it all feels. Don't be afraid to buy a cheapo adjustable angle stem and change angle after 5 miles, see how it feels.
Lots to think about but pick only one to change a small bit at a time, set a baseline fit and change one thing, Ride the same route, etc.
Just keep adjusting the fit till it feels good. Can't guarantee that your knees may not complain sometimes but it should not be a problem.
New riders tend to have low cadence, perhaps 50-65 as well and shift up too soon. This puts stress on the front of the knee. With time and attention/muscle efficiency, the cadence can go up to 80-90 +.
Of course knee tracking issues due to tightness, injuries, skeletal frame, and belly in the way may cause the knee to track out, increasing stress.
Typically knee over pedal is a good starting point, as is correct saddle height so that the knee isn't too far in flexion at the bottom of the power stroke.(assuming pedal spindle on ball of foot region)
Moving saddle forward increases knee flexion and moving saddle back lengthens the leg. Typically back of knee pain might mean saddle too far back or high, front of knee pain might mean too far forward to low.
I always set the height and fore/aft saddle, tilt, then feel out the reach and height. The reach/height will change with fitness and type of riding but the saddle really won't once you find a good setup. Frame geometry changes with different bikes but in very small ways. Certain body metrics don't.
As you ride you can scoot forward and backward on a good saddle and you'll feel differences climbing and charging on flats etc.
Either way, keep riding, enjoy it, get a stem if you want and see how it all feels. Don't be afraid to buy a cheapo adjustable angle stem and change angle after 5 miles, see how it feels.
Last edited by thenomad; 06-07-20 at 10:31 AM.
