Bike Lane vs. Sidewalk
#76
Don from Austin Texas
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You can't do a controlled study where you assign matched pairs of cyclists to ride on the sidewalk or road, you can only infer from naturalistic data. It took about 10 seconds of bing searching to find this 1994 article which purporst to show higher risks of sidewalk cycling. I can't open it as I don't have a subscription to the journal.
https://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00003/art82242
However, here is one person's summary of the findings:
https://onelesscar.wordpress.com/2008...oad-bicycling/
for example: "The greatest risk found in this study is for bicyclists over 18 traveling against traffic on the sidewalk. Each of these characteristics is hazardous in itself; combined, they present 5.3 times the average risk."
https://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00003/art82242
However, here is one person's summary of the findings:
https://onelesscar.wordpress.com/2008...oad-bicycling/
for example: "The greatest risk found in this study is for bicyclists over 18 traveling against traffic on the sidewalk. Each of these characteristics is hazardous in itself; combined, they present 5.3 times the average risk."
Don in Austin
#77
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I do whatever makes sense.
The thing to remember about a sidewalk is to act like a pedestrian on foot any time you intersect with a street or there's anyone else near you on the trail. If this is to annoying, then you should be riding on the street.
I ride the sidewalk when I cross a bride near my house that has on and off ramps from the freeway, as I personally find it absolutely insane to ride on the street through that mess of merging cars, stoplights, higher speed traffic, etc etc. I'd rather act like a pedestrian than be on the road there.
I'd also rather ride the sidewalk on a stretch of sidewalk that runs along a park by where I work than ride the road, because there's never anyone on the sidewalk (and if there is I slow way down to near-walking speeds when going by them), and there's no roads intersecting the sidewalk for about a mile.
On the other hand I definitely take the road when there's a sidewalk that actually has people regularly walking on it, or sidewalk where there's a lot of intersection. Though there I usually try to find low traffic side roads to take instead.
In order of preference, I'd say that generally I prefer -
1. Dedicated off-road bike path with few or no road crossings (well duh, lol)
2. Side roads with little or no car traffic, including bike...what is it called? The ones where they choose a low traffic road and stripe it and mark it as only local car traffic only
3. Sidewalks with pretty much no pedestrian traffic and no intersections
4. Roads with medium traffic but 2 lanes in each direction so cars can pass me - but pass me without doing that "wow that car is really close" thing
Honestly, I just won't ride on most other roads unless it's only for a short stretch to connect to something lower traffic. And I find most bike lanes to be hazardous - often it's cars on one side, parked cars with the risk of being doored on the other. They always seem to put them on high speed, high traffic roads, to.
I'd far rather ride on a low traffic side street than ride a sidewalk with intersections along a road, but sometimes riding on the sidewalk is a far better choice when using it as a short connection between 2 low traffic stretches of road/trail etc. Like I said above, I have 2 rules for riding on the sidewalk -
1. Act like a pedestrian when crossing a street
2. Act like a pedestrian when passing or coming up on people actually walking or jogging
If my choice is between a chaotic high traffic road or a sidewalk with a lot of pedestrian traffic or a lot of intersections - sorry, I'm just going to drive. It's not worth the risk for me.
The thing to remember about a sidewalk is to act like a pedestrian on foot any time you intersect with a street or there's anyone else near you on the trail. If this is to annoying, then you should be riding on the street.
I ride the sidewalk when I cross a bride near my house that has on and off ramps from the freeway, as I personally find it absolutely insane to ride on the street through that mess of merging cars, stoplights, higher speed traffic, etc etc. I'd rather act like a pedestrian than be on the road there.
I'd also rather ride the sidewalk on a stretch of sidewalk that runs along a park by where I work than ride the road, because there's never anyone on the sidewalk (and if there is I slow way down to near-walking speeds when going by them), and there's no roads intersecting the sidewalk for about a mile.
On the other hand I definitely take the road when there's a sidewalk that actually has people regularly walking on it, or sidewalk where there's a lot of intersection. Though there I usually try to find low traffic side roads to take instead.
In order of preference, I'd say that generally I prefer -
1. Dedicated off-road bike path with few or no road crossings (well duh, lol)
2. Side roads with little or no car traffic, including bike...what is it called? The ones where they choose a low traffic road and stripe it and mark it as only local car traffic only
3. Sidewalks with pretty much no pedestrian traffic and no intersections
4. Roads with medium traffic but 2 lanes in each direction so cars can pass me - but pass me without doing that "wow that car is really close" thing
Honestly, I just won't ride on most other roads unless it's only for a short stretch to connect to something lower traffic. And I find most bike lanes to be hazardous - often it's cars on one side, parked cars with the risk of being doored on the other. They always seem to put them on high speed, high traffic roads, to.
I'd far rather ride on a low traffic side street than ride a sidewalk with intersections along a road, but sometimes riding on the sidewalk is a far better choice when using it as a short connection between 2 low traffic stretches of road/trail etc. Like I said above, I have 2 rules for riding on the sidewalk -
1. Act like a pedestrian when crossing a street
2. Act like a pedestrian when passing or coming up on people actually walking or jogging
If my choice is between a chaotic high traffic road or a sidewalk with a lot of pedestrian traffic or a lot of intersections - sorry, I'm just going to drive. It's not worth the risk for me.
Don in Austin
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Referring back to the previous comment about MUP's alongside roads, I can think of one that is particularly hazardous:
https://goo.gl/maps/yxOYk
This is a MUP alongside Scenic Old Hwy 98 in Miramar Beach, Florida, near Destin. Last year my wife and I stayed down there and I took my bike. OMG the MUP is dangerous as hell to ride on! There are numerous driveways and such going to various hotels, condos, businesses, etc. and almost NO driver pulling out thinks to look before they get to the edge of the actual street. I had to ride very slowly on that thing and ALWAYS be on a constant lookout for people pulling out.
But last year I wasn't nearly as experienced a rider as I am now. When we go down there again this August, I'll be riding in the street at all times, except maybe while riding slowly with my wife.
https://goo.gl/maps/yxOYk
This is a MUP alongside Scenic Old Hwy 98 in Miramar Beach, Florida, near Destin. Last year my wife and I stayed down there and I took my bike. OMG the MUP is dangerous as hell to ride on! There are numerous driveways and such going to various hotels, condos, businesses, etc. and almost NO driver pulling out thinks to look before they get to the edge of the actual street. I had to ride very slowly on that thing and ALWAYS be on a constant lookout for people pulling out.
But last year I wasn't nearly as experienced a rider as I am now. When we go down there again this August, I'll be riding in the street at all times, except maybe while riding slowly with my wife.
#80
Sophomoric Member
The link I was able to open contained nothing but speculation. Very few of those who are primarily or exclusively sidewalk riders are serious cyclists likely to have studied safety techniques. Many will fly through crosswalks, etc. without properly checking. Of course that is observation and speculation on my part, but when you compare two things and have absolutely no mechanism to control a HUGE variable the statistical conclusion is worthless. This quote may well be valid, however: "Keep in mind, though, that even if road cycling has a lower risk of accident, a collision with a car is more likely to be fatal or result in serious injury than a fall on the sidewalk." Perhaps that is why while we lose several cyclists every year here in Austin, Texas, I can't think of a single sidewalk fatality.
Don in Austin
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#81
Don from Austin Texas
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In this post, you write only of cyclist safety while ignoring the important issue of pedestrian safety. I have bee struck twice by adult cyclists while walking on sidewalks. How do you handle pedestrians, especially on those stretches of sidewalk where you guys say there are ALMOST never any walkers? IMO, bicycling on the sidewalk is analogous to motorists driving in the bike lane.
Don in Austin
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Riding on the sidewalk is legal in DC. I do it when I can see cars ahead not giving room to ride the side of the road.
DC is not the most bike friendly city. Very few bike lanes from my experience. None on my commute. I only see them downtown & in neighborhoods I can't afford to live in. I'd have to ride a mile out of my way for .5 miles of bike lane on what's a normally 2.7 mile commute.
DC is not the most bike friendly city. Very few bike lanes from my experience. None on my commute. I only see them downtown & in neighborhoods I can't afford to live in. I'd have to ride a mile out of my way for .5 miles of bike lane on what's a normally 2.7 mile commute.
#83
Don from Austin Texas
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In this post, you write only of cyclist safety while ignoring the important issue of pedestrian safety. I have bee struck twice by adult cyclists while walking on sidewalks. How do you handle pedestrians, especially on those stretches of sidewalk where you guys say there are ALMOST never any walkers? IMO, bicycling on the sidewalk is analogous to motorists driving in the bike lane.
Don in Austin
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#85
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For people looking to boil it down to an angry saying, it could be "It's only ok to ride your bike on the sidewalk if you're going to act like a pedestrian at every intersection and every time you're near anyone else on the path." But sometimes that's absolutely an acceptable tradeoff. For short stretches where the road is chaotic and terrible but there's some pedestrians on the sidewalk, I'd rather walk my bike or bike *really* slowly. For long stretches where there's no pedestrians and no intersections, it can make sense to ride at high speeds on the sidewalk rather than the road (again - if I did run across someone walking I would slow way down, I'm talking about completely empty stretches).
#86
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Hey, thanks! It's nice to see other reasonable people on the forum as well. :-)
For people looking to boil it down to an angry saying, it could be "It's only ok to ride your bike on the sidewalk if you're going to act like a pedestrian at every intersection and every time you're near anyone else on the path." But sometimes that's absolutely an acceptable tradeoff. For short stretches where the road is chaotic and terrible but there's some pedestrians on the sidewalk, I'd rather walk my bike or bike *really* slowly. For long stretches where there's no pedestrians and no intersections, it can make sense to ride at high speeds on the sidewalk rather than the road (again - if I did run across someone walking I would slow way down, I'm talking about completely empty stretches).
For people looking to boil it down to an angry saying, it could be "It's only ok to ride your bike on the sidewalk if you're going to act like a pedestrian at every intersection and every time you're near anyone else on the path." But sometimes that's absolutely an acceptable tradeoff. For short stretches where the road is chaotic and terrible but there's some pedestrians on the sidewalk, I'd rather walk my bike or bike *really* slowly. For long stretches where there's no pedestrians and no intersections, it can make sense to ride at high speeds on the sidewalk rather than the road (again - if I did run across someone walking I would slow way down, I'm talking about completely empty stretches).
Don in Austin
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I do something similar, but I usually slow down then. I mean - I'm not slowing the 3mph of walking speed, but I'm not going 19mph either...
#88
Prefers Cicero
I have been knocked down by a sidewalk cyclist - a girl of 13 or so. I was in glass bus shelter, but one wall was covered with an ad, and that's the side she was approaching. My back was facing out and I stepped out sort of backwards, while rotating to my right to see if the bus was coming, and she hit me from my blind side just as I completed my 180, so at the last minute I saw her coming from my right. It was a narrow spot of sidewalk as there was a lampost at the curb, so there was about a 3 foot wide passageway between that and the bus shelter, so she had no place to swerve to, and she was riding too fast to stop. She hit me with her handlebars mainly, but I think also lightly with her helmet, so she must have pitched forward a bit on the bike too. She wasn't hurt. I'm a big guy and hard to knock down. Had I been an old lady, I might have died. Most annoyingly, somehow I ended up breaking the plastic buckle on my London Fog or similar raincoat belt. I don't know how you replace that. Anyway, that was a couple of raincoats ago.
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Yes because everyone who rides on the sidewalk in a reckless twit same as everyone who rides the road is a Lycra loon
It is perfectly legal to ride the paths here as long as
You must keep left and give way to pedestrians on footpaths and shared-use paths
Not hard. I mix road , bike path , shared lanes and footpaths every morning . I have not broken any elderly hips
#90
Prefers Cicero
The link I was able to open contained nothing but speculation. ...
...This quote may well be valid, however: "Keep in mind, though, that even if road cycling has a lower risk of accident, a collision with a car is more likely to be fatal or result in serious injury than a fall on the sidewalk."
Don in Austin
...This quote may well be valid, however: "Keep in mind, though, that even if road cycling has a lower risk of accident, a collision with a car is more likely to be fatal or result in serious injury than a fall on the sidewalk."
Don in Austin
As for the sentence you liked, he didn't present the data on how many of the sidewalk accidents were collisions with cars, so I don't think it is fair to imply that road accidents are more likely to be fatal collisions and sidewalk accidents are likely to be harmless falls.
#91
Prefers Cicero
Okay, going for the source, here's a summary of one of the reviewed reports, by the actual authors:
https://www.vehicularcyclist.com/wachtel.html
They provide much more detail than the first reviewer I linked to.
They had a database of 314 well documented car-bicycle collisions, and they then documented base rates of road and sidewalk, rightway and wrong way riding over 8 hours of observation at each of a sample of 9 intersections on the roads where most of the accidents had occurred. They then looked at the car-bike collisions that occurred at intersections on those roads.
The data showed that riding the wrong way on the sidewalk or road was much more dangerous for colliding with a car, than riding the right way, and riding on the sidewalk was much more dangerous for colliding with a car, than riding on the road. They took into account variables like age and sex, but obviously they could not take into account rider skill or attitude. So the two most likely explanations for why sidewalk cyclists entering intersections might collide with cars more often than cyclists on the road do, are because as a group they are less careful or competent than on-road cyclists, or because riding on the sidewalk is inherently more dangerous than riding on the road.
https://www.vehicularcyclist.com/wachtel.html
They provide much more detail than the first reviewer I linked to.
They had a database of 314 well documented car-bicycle collisions, and they then documented base rates of road and sidewalk, rightway and wrong way riding over 8 hours of observation at each of a sample of 9 intersections on the roads where most of the accidents had occurred. They then looked at the car-bike collisions that occurred at intersections on those roads.
The data showed that riding the wrong way on the sidewalk or road was much more dangerous for colliding with a car, than riding the right way, and riding on the sidewalk was much more dangerous for colliding with a car, than riding on the road. They took into account variables like age and sex, but obviously they could not take into account rider skill or attitude. So the two most likely explanations for why sidewalk cyclists entering intersections might collide with cars more often than cyclists on the road do, are because as a group they are less careful or competent than on-road cyclists, or because riding on the sidewalk is inherently more dangerous than riding on the road.
Last edited by cooker; 06-04-13 at 07:10 PM.
#92
bill nyecycles
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guys, seriously, chill.
every city is different. every town is different. all our routes and roads are different.
legalities aside, can it be unsafe to ride on the sidewalk? yes.
does that mean we should never do it? of course not.
is it more safe to ride in the road? not always, no.
is it more safe to ride in a dedicated bike lane? not always, no.
do cyclists often make dumb decisions during their rides when it comes to intersections, or other traffic infractions? yes.
do drivers often make dumb decisions because they aren't thinking or are distracted or generally apathetic? absolutely.
when and where is the most safe to ride?
wherever cyclists and motorists have a camaraderie, and a complete understanding of the rules of sharing the road.
does this place exist? probably not - but I'd have to say that it's close at a lot of places in europe because biking there is a normal lifestyle, where here in the USA we are just all car car car rush rush rush.
so what's the proper answer? ride whatever route and path serves you the best, and gets you from A to B in one piece.
the end.
every city is different. every town is different. all our routes and roads are different.
legalities aside, can it be unsafe to ride on the sidewalk? yes.
does that mean we should never do it? of course not.
is it more safe to ride in the road? not always, no.
is it more safe to ride in a dedicated bike lane? not always, no.
do cyclists often make dumb decisions during their rides when it comes to intersections, or other traffic infractions? yes.
do drivers often make dumb decisions because they aren't thinking or are distracted or generally apathetic? absolutely.
when and where is the most safe to ride?
wherever cyclists and motorists have a camaraderie, and a complete understanding of the rules of sharing the road.
does this place exist? probably not - but I'd have to say that it's close at a lot of places in europe because biking there is a normal lifestyle, where here in the USA we are just all car car car rush rush rush.
so what's the proper answer? ride whatever route and path serves you the best, and gets you from A to B in one piece.
the end.
#93
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Alright, I have a funny question - sort of - for you guys. I live in Ann Arbor, and frequently see people riding in the bike lanes, on the side of the road, in the middle of the road, on the sidewalks etc. Basically, they ride anywhere and everywhere. Well, I am in the middle of reading Bike Snob: Systematically and Mercilessly Realigning the World of Cycling by Bike Snob NYC, and he mentioned about people riding on the sidewalk, how he dislikes them, how other cyclists dislike them, how pedestrians dislike them etc. This is a great read, by the way, funny, yet informative. Next up, is the sequel, The Enlightened Cyclist: Commuter Angst, Dangerous Drivers, and Other Obstables on the Path to Two-Wheeled Transcendence.
My question is this: "How do others feel about riding on the sidewalk?" I will admit, since I am relatively new to city cycling, and have ridden on the sidewalk, due to nervousness about riding on the streets (my own inexperience/stupidity - with my disablity/minor balance issues - & drivers).
Answers? Thoughts? Tips? Suggestions?
My question is this: "How do others feel about riding on the sidewalk?" I will admit, since I am relatively new to city cycling, and have ridden on the sidewalk, due to nervousness about riding on the streets (my own inexperience/stupidity - with my disablity/minor balance issues - & drivers).
Answers? Thoughts? Tips? Suggestions?
Mine was in South Florida. Miles and miles of wide, mup type sidewalks that no one ever used.
Has anyone ever seen anyone walking in S.FL ?!?!?
I used those sidewalks on occasion. Why not? Much safer and less stressful than mixing it up with some of the angriest and most violent drivers in the USA .
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#94
Don from Austin Texas
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We had a relevant sidewalk fatality here a couple of years ago - a wrong way cyclist crossing a mall driveway entrance.
I have been knocked down by a sidewalk cyclist - a girl of 13 or so. I was in glass bus shelter, but one wall was covered with an ad, and that's the side she was approaching. My back was facing out and I stepped out sort of backwards, while rotating to my right to see if the bus was coming, and she hit me from my blind side just as I completed my 180, so at the last minute I saw her coming from my right. It was a narrow spot of sidewalk as there was a lampost at the curb, so there was about a 3 foot wide passageway between that and the bus shelter, so she had no place to swerve to, and she was riding too fast to stop. She hit me with her handlebars mainly, but I think also lightly with her helmet, so she must have pitched forward a bit on the bike too. She wasn't hurt. I'm a big guy and hard to knock down. Had I been an old lady, I might have died. Most annoyingly, somehow I ended up breaking the plastic buckle on my London Fog or similar raincoat belt. I don't know how you replace that. Anyway, that was a couple of raincoats ago.
I have been knocked down by a sidewalk cyclist - a girl of 13 or so. I was in glass bus shelter, but one wall was covered with an ad, and that's the side she was approaching. My back was facing out and I stepped out sort of backwards, while rotating to my right to see if the bus was coming, and she hit me from my blind side just as I completed my 180, so at the last minute I saw her coming from my right. It was a narrow spot of sidewalk as there was a lampost at the curb, so there was about a 3 foot wide passageway between that and the bus shelter, so she had no place to swerve to, and she was riding too fast to stop. She hit me with her handlebars mainly, but I think also lightly with her helmet, so she must have pitched forward a bit on the bike too. She wasn't hurt. I'm a big guy and hard to knock down. Had I been an old lady, I might have died. Most annoyingly, somehow I ended up breaking the plastic buckle on my London Fog or similar raincoat belt. I don't know how you replace that. Anyway, that was a couple of raincoats ago.
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I remember few years ago there was an incident where a 15 year old kid on a BMX bike collided head on with a 56 year old lady and knocked her down. She hit her head on the pavement and died. Is that the one you're talking about ??
#97
Prefers Cicero
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post12612923
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I didn't know that but it makes sense. Way too many pedestrians for bikes to be on the sidewalk. I think there are a decent amount of bike lanes in that area too.
I work in the U St area. With the lack of bike lanes and all the street work & construction going on on my route, I almost feel I have no choice at times.
I work in the U St area. With the lack of bike lanes and all the street work & construction going on on my route, I almost feel I have no choice at times.