Originally Posted by bulgie

I like to add sprung top-pivots to '60s-'70s Campy racing derailers, to make them act more like the Simplex or Shimano of that era. Not sharing this as advice, that'd be terrible advice. It's impractical. Just wanted to show an example of the absurd lengths some anoraks are willing to go to.

For example, here's my NR that's been hot-rodded with a Rally sprung upper pivot, and a SR pulley cage:


Here it's reaching fairly easily to a 31t cog, the largest Regina ever made for the old 'Oro' freewheel. It also hits 32t no problem, didn't try it on 34 but I think it'd work. The short cage still limits the range in front, but I can also put a Rally cage on it. OK, then it's just a Rally mech with an NR outer parallelogram link, but with a little extra coolness factor. BTW both pivot bolts on this one are Ti, made by Jim Merz.

A little more wacky, here's a bronze and steel Record mech that's had the sprung upper pivot from a Sport (not Gran Sport) grafted on. I show it in big-big and small-small, where it works fine, with a 30t freewheel and a 28-38-49 triple, slightly lower than 1-to-1 low. Note how the whole parallelogram swings fore and aft on that upper pivot, which a normal Record or NR can't do.


Basically, it's a more-durable Simplex Prestige. Oh and check out that drillium Stronglight 93 triple while yer at it. Note it uses only '70s Stronglight parts, down to the bolts. So it could have been done BITD, though I don't know if anyone did. Goes down to 28t.

If that's not enough gear range, I can easily bolt on a long cage from an early '70s Crane GS. It bolts right on*, like it was made to fit!


I don't know the max range for this, but here it's easily shifting to a 34t cog, with 20t range in front (26-36-46), and capacity to spare. It's all period-correct for an early-'70s bike, all parts that existed back then and could very well have been assembled like this BITD. Dunno if anyone did.

* OK it doesn't quite bolt right on, it does require about 10 seconds of work with a dremel, to knock down the rotation-stop nub on the Crane cage, which otherwise gets in the way of the spring-cover cap on the Record. If you take off the minimum amount, then the nub stil functions 100% on the Crane, so this is fully reversible. Pic to show where to remove metal:

Adding the "Pawn" bolt from the Record as a cage-rotation stop is optional, only comes into play when removing the rear wheel and putting it back in, has zero function while riding. But it's also a one-minute job if you own an M5 x 0.8 tap, which anyone who would take on this crazy grafting project certainly already owns.

BTW adding the Crane cage to a Record is a good hack even if you aren't grafting on a sprung upper pivot. The cage is MUCH easier than the grafting mod, and reversible, no derailers are harmed.

Lastly, here's a Gran Sport, the '50s-'60s racing mech, also with the top knuckle of a Sport grafted on:



Haven't put this on a bike yet, but I expect it'll have almost but not quite as much range as the Record, and the Crane GS cage doesn't bolt right on like it does on the Record. Still, a nice "secret weapon" for an Eroica bike, for someone not as slim and masochistic as they were in their younger years.

Bob Freeman, who made himself some Rally-clone cages and then got Soma to make them, has put Rally-clone cages on Gran Sport mechs, ask him how. It's not a simple bolt-on, the thread is different, so you'll have to be comfortable with drilling and tapping on your brand new Soma cage.

Seriously though, don't do any of this. It's way more work than it's worth. Just get a derailer that was made to work with lower gears.

Oh about the front derailer: I've always just used a stock '70s Record. It works great with a 20t spread or even more, but I seldom want more than 20t, so I haven't tested the limits. I have a feeling (correct me if I'm wrong) that most people who say it's not for triples are just assuming, without ever trying one. Anyone here actually found the Record unsuitable for triples? If so, in what way?

Originally Posted by jonwvara

Sometimes I think we just like to hear ourselves talk.

Originally Posted by bulgie

You say that like it's a bad thing!

Originally Posted by jonwvara

I'm picturing a T shirt:

On top, in big letters, it says Bike Forums Classic & Vintage

Under that, smaller, Help! I'm typing and I can't shut up!

Maybe a cartoon graphic of a guy sitting at a computer, with a couple of drops of cartoon sweat flying off his forehead?I

Originally Posted by bulgie

Reminds me of this one, one of xckd's most popular:

Originally Posted by bulgie

Reminds me of this one, one of xkcd's most popular:

EDIT: rude of me not to include the link. https://xkcd.com/386/ Mea Culpa!
Please go buy his books etc.

Originally Posted by yonelwa

Thanks for everyones replies! I didn't think this thread would get so much feedback, but I'm really appreciative. Pretty funny towards the end as well - yup I was stunned into silence, but mostly lost. I haven't decided what I'll do and I'll probably go through this thread another 10 times before I do, but I've got a left field idea that I hope will inspire even more debate!

What I was thinking was leaving the RD untouched, keeping the old but pretty much brand new Sontour 14-25 cassette, getting the Blue Lug cranks but removing the outer chain ring, replace that with a chainring guard and run it as a 2-by with a 118mm BB instead of the 122mm recommended for triples by Blue Lug - this will give me 14 - 25 on the back and 26 - 36 on the front and a 21T chain wrap with room to swap the 36T chainring for something in the 40's maybe with room to increase my chain wrap to 28T (so I'm guessing I can go to 42T?). Basically my days of pedalling down hill will be over and I won't have a nice small-big gear ratio, but 14/36 small-big seems less stressful than 25/42 big-small, and I can always swap out the 36T 110 PCD chainring.

Another reason why I like this is because when the chainrings get worn I can swap them out easily by replacing the middle 36T for something like a 32T (which I will be using as the second big chainring at first), take off the smaller chainring and use the largest chainring (the 48T that'll come with the crank, but which I won't be using at first and will keep in my parts bin). This will make a new double ... like 36 or 32T to 48T. But I'll probably need a 122mm BB because I'll be using the two bigger rings of the triple instead of the two smaller.

Also, if I can find a granny gear for sale I can replace the 26T for something similar, replace the middle ring for something better than the 36T and run something like 26 - 42T potentially (and keep the 118mm BB).

This way I'll be able to use the NR RD unchanged for the rest of my life. I also plan to keep the NR crankset and use it if I come across any issues with keeping this Blue Lug crankset running (despite the difficult gear range). I'm really partial to the NR RD look - it's just crazy looking to me and I love it's reputation. It's something I'm proud to own (I got this bike for 500NZD, about 300USD). I'll post a pic of the bike when it's up and running. It is a real stunner and I'm just glad that it's running decently because if everything turns to crap I can just run the Campy stuff and destroy my thighs on some hills and walk up a few if need be. Cars hardly drive up them anyway and I don't care about impressing some cows.

Cheers guys, awesome thread!