jzr756

Hello all . I been thinking about swapping out my Suntour long cage ARX for the Suntour V GT RD more for aesthetics than anything else. I'd prefer NOS, so far I haven't come across one. Even if so, probably pretty pricey , So I'd have to settle for used. I've read a lot of good things about the old V series . Is it a purely bolt on affair without any other changes ? Also , Although I've never heard of or come across one was a matching FD ever available back in the day?

spclark 

Might you be able to post a pic of what you want to perform this swap on? That'll give us more to ponder than just what you're thinking about.

I mounted a V-GT Luxe this year in place of the Campy NR DR my MB was sold with.


vs:


The V-GT came off a donor FUJI I found for sale a few blocks from home. Only fiddly bit was its B-scew adjuster needed some work to bear properly against the DO/frame boss but that proved to be a relatively easy proposition. Results were quite gratifying once I got things tuned up again, didn't take long either.

Kabuki12

I think as long as it is a long cage SunTour you should be ok. You may look at a first generation Cyclone GT . One of my favorite SunTour RD. I have tried the V GT and they work very well but for looks , I prefer the Cyclone.

jzr756

sClark I'll post one now


BY the way, nice Campagnolo conversion there

jzr756

Kabuki12, I agree, I like the look of the Cyclone as well 😀

The Golden Boy 

There's all kinds of things to factor into a decision like this-

1. Purpose- what are you trying to do, and why are you doing it. If you're just trying new and different parts- derailleur changing is easy and it fun and there's zillions of choices and combinations- totally recommend playing around and learning. And "because I want to" is a totally legitimate reason. But- if you're looking to fix a problem or upgrade what you have going on- it's important to look into why you want what you want- before you drop the money into it. Which leads into....

2. Performance- I don't think there's a difference between an ARX and a V-GT Luxe. I've used V-GT, V-GT Luxe and an AR (not X). Just like all Suntour derailleurs- they work well and smooth and everything.

3. Weight- I'd guess about a horse a piece... again pretty even. These were touring derailleurs... they were meant to be as strong as they needed to be and consequently, as heavy as they needed to be. A Cyclone weighs a lot less- but it's not as bulletproof.

4. Aesthetic- this is where the difference is- IMO there's an aesthetic difference between 70s and 80s bikes. Again- IMO- a V-GT Luxe is an older looking piece but performance is right up there with the best of 'em- but the design is literally 10 years older than your bike and sort of anachronistic. If'n I were going to upgrade an 84-ish bike like yours I would be looking at a Suntour XC (not XC Pro, or XC Sport- just plain ol' XC).


I seriously don't mean to talk you out of anything- ESPECIALLY if you're doing this for science. There's really no wrong way to go about it, unless you break stuff. What better way to find out that a Superbe Pro won't work with a 28 tooth cog than to find out that you really can't get a Superbe Pro to not work on a 28T cog? . (and some people have gotten Superbe Pros to work on 28s, but not me).

Again- this is just my stupid opinion- I was trying out all kinds of long cage derailleurs with my 1985 Trek 720- Pretty much everything I could get my grubby lil paws on. There were 2 derailleurs that didn't work well for me, both Suntour- a Le Tech and a 2nd generation Mountech. Oddly, they were both triple pivot derailleurs sort of like the Duopar. The VG-T Luxe worked great- but it looked old and kind of big and blocky. Conversely the Cyclone I used was the old style- and the aesthetic didn't bother me a bit- it worked fine- but it felt so dainty. I'm not a strong rider- but that derailleur felt wrong on that bike. So then- in sheer defiance of my aversion to big and blocky and heavy- my favorite friction derailleur on that bike was a triple pulley XC. Go figure.

Suntour XC by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

2nd Generation Mountech by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr


I don't think I have any pix of the bike with some of the other derailleurs on it- if I did, they were probably swallowed by Pee Bucket.

Suntour V-GT Luxe Rear Derailleur by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

Suntour Derailleurs by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

jzr756

Hey Dave thanks so much to all. And for your excellent detailed write up! The only problem I have with the ARX aside from the "looks" is accessing that difficult cable clamp getting the shifter cable under the lip of the clamping plate. Shifts ok otherwise.. I was aware Suntour back in the day had a wide variety of nice derailleurs. There are indeed a whole lot of choices!

sd5782 

Also look at the VX-GT. It is kinda an updated V and is quite attractive.



VX-GT

markk900

Just for reference I believe the “matching” front derailleur for the V series was the Compe-V, though I have seen SL as well (and I think an all steel Spirit but not sure of the timeline there)

edit: did some searching and in the mid-70s there was also the Seven, and the Vx. I mostly saw Compe-V but I’d expect Vx was also matched with the Vx rears.

79pmooney

Can a sunTour long cage ARX RD be replaced by V GT RD ?

Yes - with 2 cautions. The V GT will not handle more than a 7-speed cassette and 126 OLD (dropout spacing) as wider did not exist in the '70s. Even possible that a very early V GT might only handle 5-speed/Ultra 6-speed and 120 BCD.

Also the ARX probably has a different cable pull and therefore the V GT will not index properly and will use a different amount of a friction shifter's swing. Still, most friction shifters should shift just fine,

So - try it. Just don't toss the ARX until you know you can reach all the gears. If it cannot, nothing is going to break. That hill will just be one gear harder.

ehcoplex 

I've got V-Gt Luxe, Cyclone first gen, and Cyclone MkII on various bikes- they're all great working RDs. Feel-wise, the Cyclones edge out the V-Gt (though that may have more to do with the shifters I've got them paired with). I agree with some others that the 1st gen Cyclone tops the aesthetic. Not sure I totally understand the issue with the cabling with the ARX, but will say that getting the cable threaded through the clamp on both Cyclones can be a little bit fiddly. Pretty sure the bike with the V-Gt Luxe has an SL for the FD (notable for being 'hi-normal', which takes a bit of getting used to).

spclark 

I do as well.

If one had materialized when I was scrounging around nearby last year I'd prolly be running it now 'stead of the V-GT.

Point being I'm not so fussy about aesthetics vs. performance when the latter's the issue: that Campy looks sweet enough but couldn't hack the gear change I needed to work out for the terrain where I ride now; I'd forgotten I had a pic of the change when I first replied to your opening question:


This shows the end result, entirely satisfactory from a usage PoV. It's an early '70's Motobecane too so 'in period' for the engineering.

Chuck M 

I have two bikes with Suntour V-GT Luxe RDs. One has a Suntour Comp-V front and the other has a Suntour NSL front. I don't know about prices for NOS or gently used V-GT Luxe Res on eBay, but I looked at Compe-V FDs a week or two ago and there were a lot of them around $15 if I recall.

jzr756

spClark , I do like how that V-GT looks all mounted up ! That cable clamp looks totally accessible as well LOL... That 1st low sprocket appears rather large in the pic, something akin to a Shimano Mega Rrange?

Vintage Schwinn

My '76 Takara 732 has the SUNTOUR V-GT luxe as standard equipment with a 34 teeth cog first gear on the freewheel. Yes, it will do the job fine!!

spclark 

No idea JZR756. This MB wears my Very First FW ever, likely my last as well. Once I got used to riding again after a decade+ hiatus, it was clearly evident the original Maeda 8.8.8's 12/24 array wasn't something I wanted to live with for long. What was 'reasonable and proper' back in the flatland of Illinois was anything but reasonable where I live and ride now, deep in the Driftless Region southeast of La Crosse WI.

And I'm older too.

I used the Maeda 8.8.8 'core' as the starting point for a custom array of Suntour cogs assembled with some trepidation and with help from @PastorBobinPA and various eBay sellers. Beyond that I've also upgraded the original B&C BB for a Velo Orange that now spins a Stronglight 93 crankset w/3 chainrings. The original Campy FD's entirely comfortable w/ wider range & the Suntour's 14/32 in back after all the futzing, as are my thighs.

jeirvine 

+1. That's my go-to long cager. Great looks, light weight, and a lot less pricey than a Cyclone.

ehcoplex 

Cyclones were pretty common- the best deals on them IMO, and if you're willing to clean/restore/polish/etc, seem to usually be in buying a whole bike. I pretty regularly see Cyclone equipped bikes listing on FB/CL for $80-$100, and you end up with all the other (potentially...) useful parts for your bin! (same can be said for V, Vx, etc....)

52telecaster

That's my favorite. Reasonably light and ubiquitous. Not sure why I'd ever need another derailleur.

sd5782 

Actually, I will admit, that the pictured 82 Trek 412 didn’t really like the VX GT. The derailleur hanger mounting bolt on that one is nearly 35mm from the axle. It also was shaped such that the RD couldn’t be rotated forward much. I did file the dropout tab a slight bit and the tab on th VX a lot just to get it to sit parallel. The upper pulley couldn’t get close enough to the gear cluster for nice crisp shifts on a Suntour freewheel. I would guess it would work better on a nice twist tooth Shimano Uniglide though. I still like the VX and find the VXs version to be very versatile.

noglider 

I'm in favor of using a V-GT. In my experience, it's more reliable and durable than many other models, including the more expensive ones. I've seen more Cyclone derailleurs fail, and they are not even as common.

steelbikeguy

The same thought has crossed my mind, but I need more data.
I've been using Cyclones on my commuting/touring bike for 23 years, and had one lower pivot spring break (over the 58k miles). I've had more troubles just with the parallelogram spring getting too weak to push the chain to the small cogs, though.
I've had the lower pivot spring break on the Cyclone on another bike too. These were both 1st generation Cyclone GT's.

I've got a couple of VGT's in the parts box, and I may just put one of those on the touring bike the next time I have trouble with the Cyclone. I just have to ride the bike for another 23 years to see if it breaks a spring too.

Practically, I don't break enough Cyclones to really test this hypothesis, but maybe someone else has more data? I might still give the VGT a shot, though.

Steve in Peoria

USAZorro

ARX seems heavier to me.

VGT works well, but hope you don't have to replace the upper jockey wheel. It takes a special tool to free the bolt... speaking of which - does anyone know what can be used in lieu of the tool?

spclark 

Why I jumped on finding a 'donor' last summer for my renovation project. Having been told of their reputation for durability, even on a bike that looked as worn out as the Fuji it was screwed to it looked to be in Pretty Fine Shape for something 45 years old. Once pulled off & cleaned up I was happy wth what I'd paid; only thing funky was the B-screw which didn't mate well to my MB's frame lug anyway:

steelbikeguy

looking at the pics that I've taken over the years.... the Cyclone GT does take a two-pronged tool to remove the nut that keeps the cage and upper pulley attached to the lower pivot shaft. This is a shot of one with the nut removed, along with the home-made tool for this...



I've got a VGT Luxe with a similar nut....


but the plain VGT that I've got uses a conventional hex nut.... that looks like it might hit the spokes??


After hoarding Cyclones over the years, I'm amazed at the number of small variations in just the first generation Cyclone derailleurs. I guess I'm not surprised to see these changes over the VGT versions.

Steve in Peoria