Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

New Australian study into night visibility misconceptions

Search
Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

New Australian study into night visibility misconceptions

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-10-13, 08:41 PM
  #1  
009jim
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
009jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,289

Bikes: Giant CRX3, Trek 7100

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
New Australian study into night visibility misconceptions

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science...01457513000821
009jim is offline  
Old 04-10-13, 09:09 PM
  #2  
zeppinger
Senior Member
 
zeppinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,016

Bikes: Giant FCR3, Surly LHT

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
First sentence: "Conspicuity limitations make bicycling at night dangerous." Right. I like how its the fault of the cyclists for "not being conspicuos enough" rather than the fault of the driver for plowing into him.

zeppinger is offline  
Old 04-10-13, 11:10 PM
  #3  
B. Carfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Additionally, occasional bicyclists judged themselves to be more visible than did frequent bicyclists.
Perhaps that is part of why newbies seem to get hit more often than folks who have been around the block a time or two.
B. Carfree is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 04:43 AM
  #4  
Earl Grey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 369

Bikes: '10 Fuji Cross Comp, '12 Brompton S-Type, '14 All City Mr Pink

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Interesting that retroreflective material on ankles / knees makes so much difference to the actual recognition distance. Ankle bands are usually the part of my 'dark' gear that I'm least likely to bother to put on. I guess that should change.
Earl Grey is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 06:57 AM
  #5  
JonnyHK 
Senior Member
 
JonnyHK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London
Posts: 2,420

Bikes: Baum Romano, Brompton S2, Homemade Bamboo!

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked 204 Times in 129 Posts
Originally Posted by Earl Grey
Interesting that retroreflective material on ankles / knees makes so much difference to the actual recognition distance. Ankle bands are usually the part of my 'dark' gear that I'm least likely to bother to put on. I guess that should change.

There was an earlier Australian study on this - something to do with the movement. A static reflector could be some boring road furniture, but something pumping up and down seems to trigger a better response.
JonnyHK is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 07:03 AM
  #6  
Looigi
Senior Member
 
Looigi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 12 Posts
IMO, nothing new, different, or in the least surprising in the abstract. More interesting would be a study on what compels many riders to be so obtuse about this.
Looigi is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 08:51 AM
  #7  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,847

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2338 Post(s)
Liked 2,827 Times in 1,543 Posts
Originally Posted by zeppinger
First sentence: "Conspicuity limitations make bicycling at night dangerous." Right. I like how its the fault of the cyclists for "not being conspicuos enough" rather than the fault of the driver for plowing into him.

I can tell you never have really objectively seen how difficult it is see a cyclist at night with dark clothes and no lights/reflectors. And in my experience many people who ride like that also tend to ride ride unpredicatably. So you take an invisible person who does a dumb move and a driver (or another cyclist) has reduced time to react.
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 09:16 AM
  #8  
Earl Grey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 369

Bikes: '10 Fuji Cross Comp, '12 Brompton S-Type, '14 All City Mr Pink

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yeah, that's what surprised me - the original set of 'acquisition distances' (which as JonnyHK says, are from an earlier study). 20m for dark clothing and no reflectives. Even with a 20mph closure rate (15mph bike and 35mph car) that's only a couple of seconds. The ankle/knee reflectors triple that distance (40 to 120m) vs just a reflective vest.
Earl Grey is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 09:56 AM
  #9  
spivonious
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lancaster, PA, USA
Posts: 1,851

Bikes: 2012 Trek Allant, 2016 Bianchi Volpe Disc

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This holds up with my personal experiences.

I saw a cyclist with ankle reflectors and the up-down motion made it immediately obvious that there was a cyclist way before I could actually see the rider or the bike.
spivonious is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 11:10 AM
  #10  
Looigi
Senior Member
 
Looigi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Of course most states require bikes ridden at night to have pedal and spoke reflectors, specifically because the motion makes them much more conspicuous.
Looigi is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 11:46 AM
  #11  
agent pombero
Mmm hm!
 
agent pombero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Another article on this topic from the same authors

Wood, J. M., Tyrrell, R. A., Marszalek, R., Lacherez, P., Carberry, T., & Chu, B. S. (March 01, 2012). Using reflective clothing to enhance the conspicuity of bicyclists at night. Accident Analysis & Prevention, 45, 726-730.

This article shows that young drivers are able to recognize a cyclist before the elderly (who shouldn't be driving IMO past 60). See the attachment and

Originally Posted by Looigi
Of course most states require bikes ridden at night to have pedal and spoke reflectors, specifically because the motion makes them much more conspicuous.
No pedal reflectors on my M520s, but I did the next best thing: I used Reflexite REF-DB Retroreflective Daybright Tape along the length of the crankarms, both sides, so that a solid line of reflective tape is seen while pedaling. I also put the tape throughout the span of both planet bike fenders + parts of the rear rack. It is very reflective! I've had several motorists complement how bright I am in the back (also probably due to the three hotshots).

Originally Posted by Looigi
IMO, nothing new, different, or in the least surprising in the abstract. More interesting would be a study on what compels many riders to be so obtuse about this.
Those studies are called Looked But Failed To See (LBFTS) errors in the literature. There has been a lot of research on this topic.

Arnaud Koustanaï, Emmanuelle Boloix, Pierre Van Elslande, Claude Bastien, Statistical analysis of “looked-but-failed-to-see” accidents: Highlighting the involvement of two distinct mechanisms, Accident Analysis & Prevention, Volume 40, Issue 2, March 2008, Pages 461-469, ISSN 0001-4575, 10.1016/j.aap.2007.08.001.

Cale B. White, Jeff K. Caird, The blind date: The effects of change blindness, passenger conversation and gender on looked-but-failed-to-see (LBFTS) errors, Accident Analysis & Prevention, Volume 42, Issue 6, November 2010, Pages 1822-1830, ISSN 0001-4575, 10.1016/j.aap.2010.05.003.

Mai-Britt Herslund, Niels O Jørgensen, Looked-but-failed-to-see-errors in traffic, Accident Analysis & Prevention, Volume 35, Issue 6, November 2003, Pages 885-891, ISSN 0001-4575, 10.1016/S0001-4575(02)00095-7.
Attached Images

Last edited by agent pombero; 04-11-13 at 12:07 PM.
agent pombero is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 11:58 AM
  #12  
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by JonnyHK
There was an earlier Australian study on this - something to do with the movement. A static reflector could be some boring road furniture, but something pumping up and down seems to trigger a better response.
At one point I did 4 double centuries, 2 of them back to back. The person who got me into that also taught me how to rig the bike, which included reflective tape on the wheels. The result was getting caught in the headlights made me look like a UFO. Definitely gets attention.

Reflective tape if used well has one other huge advantage, it can be put on to provide reflection from all angles. Most reflectors and lights are only in front and behind.
Keith99 is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 01:01 PM
  #13  
alhedges
Senior Member
 
alhedges's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Naptown
Posts: 1,133

Bikes: NWT 24sp DD; Brompton M6R

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by zeppinger
First sentence: "Conspicuity limitations make bicycling at night dangerous." Right. I like how its the fault of the cyclists for "not being conspicuos enough" rather than the fault of the driver for plowing into him.

No one plowed into anyone.

And it *is* the responsibility of cyclists to use appropriate lighting at night. The point of the article is to help bikers realize what works best to be seen. I think that is very useful information.
alhedges is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 01:25 PM
  #14  
spare_wheel
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NA
Posts: 4,267

Bikes: NA

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
And it *is* the responsibility of cyclists to use appropriate lighting at night.
And it is the responsibility of human beings not to kill, maim, or injure other human beings. "I did not see him" or "they came out of nowhere" are typically just excuses used by motorists who are operating a lethal machine in a dangerous manner. Not being able to see due to darkness (like heavy rain) is a terrific reason to slow the @#$% down. 20 mph is a perfectly sensible driving speed when you have limited visibility. The life of a single human being is worth far more than all of the minutes everyone saves by speeding in a 25 mph zone.
spare_wheel is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 01:37 PM
  #15  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,552

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5224 Post(s)
Liked 3,585 Times in 2,344 Posts
would like to see a study on drivers who buzz cyclists intentionally
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 01:49 PM
  #16  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,278
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4260 Post(s)
Liked 1,363 Times in 945 Posts
Originally Posted by agent pombero
This article shows that young drivers are able to recognize a cyclist before the elderly (who shouldn't be driving IMO past 60).
Bizarre.

We don't know what the study means by "young" or "elderly" but it would seem that the peformance of 59 year-olds is very close to the performance of 60 year-olds.

If you don't want 60 year-olds driving, do you want them to be riding bicycles?

If you have a drivers license, are you planning on giving it up when you turn 60?

If you had suggested that everybody qualify due to some sort of test, you might have a reasonable idea. But disqualifying people by simple age doesn't make sense.

You also don't seem to realize that "young" drivers (20-24 year-olds) are involved in many more accidents (about 3.5 times as many) as 65-74 year-olds are.

https://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s1114.pdf

Last edited by njkayaker; 04-11-13 at 01:52 PM.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 01:50 PM
  #17  
zeppinger
Senior Member
 
zeppinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,016

Bikes: Giant FCR3, Surly LHT

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by alhedges
No one plowed into anyone.

And it *is* the responsibility of cyclists to use appropriate lighting at night. The point of the article is to help bikers realize what works best to be seen. I think that is very useful information.
If its actually that hard to see a cyclists without a leg band then they make cars have mandatory brighter head lights or night time speed limits that are much slower than day time speed limits. Why is it always the cyclists fault? "I'm sorry officer but even thought the cyclists followed all the rules and had the legally required red reflector on the back of his bike, I just couldnt see him because he didnt have an ankle strap! What was that guy thinking?!?!?!"

Im not arguing that the information is not useful for those who do want to go above and beyond I am just saying that there seems to be more and more responsibility put on the cyclists for "gettin' outta the way of da cars" and not enough emphasis put on drivers who disregard the laws that are in place to keep us safe in the first place.

So, if cyclists are not very visible to cars why do cyclists have to change their behavior and not drivers?
zeppinger is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 02:00 PM
  #18  
mconlonx
Senior Member
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,558
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7148 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 92 Posts
If you're doing 25 mph downhill in the dark on your bike, how much reaction time do you think you have, how much distance do you think you'd need to ID a pedestrian dressed all in black, walking along the side of the road? Think you'd have enough time to not plow into them...?

If you hit them, is it the fault of the walker wearing dark, or the cyclist running them down?
mconlonx is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 02:00 PM
  #19  
JerrySTL
Senior Member
 
JerrySTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 1,471

Bikes: Giant Defy Advanced, Breezer Doppler Team, Schwinn Twinn Tandem, Windsor Tourist, 1954 JC Higgens

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
I have enough lights, reflectors, bright clothing, etc., that cars often pass me extremely slow. You can tell there's "some WTF is that?" going on.
JerrySTL is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 02:00 PM
  #20  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,278
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4260 Post(s)
Liked 1,363 Times in 945 Posts
Originally Posted by zeppinger
If its actually that hard to see a cyclists without a leg band then they make cars have mandatory brighter head lights or night time speed limits that are much slower than day time speed limits. Why is it always the cyclists fault? "I'm sorry officer but even thought the cyclists followed all the rules and had the legally required red reflector on the back of his bike, I just couldnt see him because he didnt have an ankle strap! What was that guy thinking?!?!?!"

Im not arguing that the information is not useful for those who do want to go above and beyond I am just saying that there seems to be more and more responsibility put on the cyclists for "gettin' outta the way of da cars" and not enough emphasis put on drivers who disregard the laws that are in place to keep us safe in the first place.

So, if cyclists are not very visible to cars why do cyclists have to change their behavior and not drivers?
Car drivers are required to make sure their own cars are visible (by having working lights).

Given how easy/cheap/effective it is to be more visible as a cyclist, it's not very smart to choose not be more visible.

The goal is to avoid collisions. Why would you, as a cyclist, rationally choose to rely on drivers changing their behavior?
njkayaker is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 02:48 PM
  #21  
noisebeam
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,030

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5345 Post(s)
Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Did they test rear pointed lights or only front?

from abstract: "the bicycle had a light mounted on the handlebars which was either static, flashing or off."
noisebeam is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 03:14 PM
  #22  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by mconlonx
If you're doing 25 mph downhill in the dark on your bike, how much reaction time do you think you have, how much distance do you think you'd need to ID a pedestrian dressed all in black, walking along the side of the road? Think you'd have enough time to not plow into them...?

If you hit them, is it the fault of the walker wearing dark, or the cyclist running them down?
Try the same question changing the cyclist to a motorist... and leave the pedestrian in dark clothing.

See things get a bit strange as soon as you throw a motorist into the equation... as apparently they can be in "accidents" where there is no fault assigned.
genec is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 03:59 PM
  #23  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,978

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,536 Times in 1,045 Posts
Originally Posted by agent pombero
the elderly (who shouldn't be driving IMO past 60).
Which explains once again how much to value your opinion.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 04:02 PM
  #24  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,978

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,536 Times in 1,045 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
Bizarre.
You also don't seem to realize that "young" drivers (20-24 year-olds) are involved in many more accidents (about 3.5 times as many) as 65-74 year-olds are.
The poster who made the bizarre comment don't need no stinkin' stats to justify his bizarre (to be kind) opinions; unless he can find some, somewhere that somehow supports his wackadoodle opinions.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-11-13, 04:18 PM
  #25  
mconlonx
Senior Member
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,558
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7148 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 92 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
Try the same question changing the cyclist to a motorist... and leave the pedestrian in dark clothing.

See things get a bit strange as soon as you throw a motorist into the equation... as apparently they can be in "accidents" where there is no fault assigned.
Things aren't strange -- ped still has a good chance of getting hit because they are doing nothing to mitigate walking ninja in the dark.

Cars are specifically required to run lights at some time period stated in law around sunset or dusk. Motorcyclists in the USA have to run daytime running lights. Many cyclists are legally required to run lights when it's dark out.

Maybe lights should be mandatory on bikes, and while we're at it, require daytime use for conspicuity like motorcyclists and many cars.

If a cyclist is riding in the dark without lights where nighttime use of lights is required of cyclists and gets hit by a driver with their car, who is more at fault?
mconlonx is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.