martinjones

I've been watching the track world championships this week on TV.

What difference will a full aero skinsuit make to my race times versus a high end pair of aero bib shorts and jersey combo?

Garfield Cat

Wind tunnel test with you riding. Biggest difference would be your position on the bike and your body profile itself. That way you're testing what matters.

Maybe add a naked test. Shoes but no socks.

StanSeven

Probably not much assuming you don't have hairy arms and legs.

Looigi

Best to shave for maximal aeroness.

Doge

Seems about 1/10 mph @ 30mph. Maybe more when you bring in the mental part. Certainly a requirement for a TT.

I'd add going long sleeve makes a difference / or shaving your arms.

This is a stretch my son has done several hundred times (15 min from our house). He mixes it up with skin suit and bibs and jersey. ~29-30mph in skin suit.

Jiggle

Go look up the test Specialized did on youtube.

jen_turnbull

There are plenty of surveys online that will give you the scientific answer.

You'll also need to adjust your riding style in to a more aerodynamic position. The skinsuit will help in this regard, but take a look at videos online like the one Doge posted above to give you an idea.

It sounds obvious, but if you're going to buy a skinsuit, then make sure the fit is absolutely skin tight. Otherwise, it's not worth bothering.

Also, go for a high end one that isn't going to stretch after you've worn it a few times. Speaking from experience, some have a tendency to crease around the shoulders and thigh areas.

Looks like good technique and minimal upper body movement.

Doge

I posted this somewhere in the last few weeks but we are working for him to unlearn smoothness in TTs and stomp on the pedals. Seems it makes the rider go faster. A video below taken over a year ago you will see he is much less smooth now. Just faster.
Smooth <> fastest TT

Elvo

jen_turnbull

Excellent.

I still like drafting races, but this reminds my why I prefer competing in non-drafting races and triathlons.

As athletes, we should have to do all of our own work, instead of the pack dictating results through drafting.

Doge

Anyway, the point, other than showing off my kid, was...
-do your own tests.
-It does matter when you need to get max speed.

ColaJacket

Drafting races are just called races.

Non-Drafting races are called time trials.

While there is some strategy tactics in time trials, there's a lot more in races. And you're actually competing against other cyclists in races, as opposed to competing against yourself in a time trial.

GH

WalksOn2Wheels

I've wanted the SanRemo speed suit since it first came out, but I've always been too fat to let myself waste money on one. Maybe if I hit my target weight by my birthday in September, I can treat myself. It seems like the best of both worlds and would be awesome for Texas summers when you can remove the extra layer of bibs between you and the jersey, but still have full bib-style support and pockets in the rear.

Doge

Junior has 1-2. They are nice. Still not the same as a TT suit.

Doge

?
The TT is one of the better ways to improve position against others.

therhodeo

Only in a stage race with a TT.

Doge

In TTs without stage races they give medals/prizes/money to the fastest times.

ColaJacket

Yes, but in a TT, you're still racing yourself. You're seeing how fast you can go on your own. There is strategy, but not really a lot of racing tactics. You may have someone letting you know how your time compares to others, but for the most part, you can't see them. You can't race them side-by-side (and yes I said side-by-side, because I didn't want to indicate drafting).

So you're really racing yourself, and then when you're done, you compare your time to others' times.

GH

Doge

Of course is is not the same as a Crit. But times vary by who shows up and position starting and taking advantage of wind (passing cars, riders). When we are discussing seconds the little stuff matters - like a skin suit (this thread). On some TT courses you may see your competitors on turns and adjust your speed for strategy reasons - then there is chasing the rabbit, esp on TTs with 30 sec start differences where you might pace a rider up a hill and do something different on the decent. As mentioned it all matters more in stage races, but TTs may not be just go against yourself.

jen_turnbull

It's "tactical cycle racing" versus "cycle racing".

When passing a struggling competitor, you've got 15 seconds (or whatever the rules say) in their drafting zone to overtake. Once past, the onus is on them to immediately drop back 7 metres (or whatever) out of your zone before they can then attempt to come back at you.

The problem with drafting is once you are past, they can tactically hang on to your rear wheel, recover, make you do all the work, then pass you again near the finish.

It's good for Television with close racing, etc. but I find that unfair from a sporting perspective.

grolby

therhodeo

I'm someone is so stupid to drag someone to the finish line like that then the "sporting" thing to do is to outsprint them at the line to teach them a good life lesson.

caloso

You realize that mass start racing existed prior to the advent of television, right?

ColaJacket

Why do you think Professional Cyclists have teams?

Part of it is so that the team can protect one of their riders, so they can sprint to the finish. Cavendish talks all the time about his leadout rider.

If you don't want somebody wheelsucking, then either slow down or drop them. Let them know that you're perfectly willing to go back to the pack and draft if they're not willing to help on the breakaway.

Who said that anything in sports was supposed to be fair?

Now, it may not be very sporting. But often in sports, the best tactical/strategic decision may not be very sporting.

And I still think that "chasing the rabbit" or doing other things when you see another cyclist in a time trial is more strategic than tactical. The rules of a time trial are set up that you are racing against yourself to get your best possible time. And then afterwards, you compare it to the other riders. Now granted, the first cyclist out is at a disadvantage, because they don't know the times of the other cyclists, and the last rider may have the benefit of knowing how hard they have to go, which may be of benefit in a multi-stage race. But for the most part, you're trying for your best time, and other cyclists shouldn't be influencing that time.

GH