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I'd rather just not have a bike lane

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Old 11-02-18, 11:37 AM
  #1  
wipekitty
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I'd rather just not have a bike lane

One of the main east-west streets in my town (La Crosse, WI) opened yesterday, after being closed for four months. Part of the ~5 block resurfacing project was supposed to include improved bicycle and pedestrian facilities.

Coming out of the traffic circle (that was added last summer), I turned into the new bike lane. There was a nice arrow showing me where to go - helpful in the dark. I suddenly realized that just beyond the arrow, at the end of the first block of new pavement, there was a CURB and I was about to hit it head on.

What happened? It appears that, following recommendations from State of Wisconsin best practices to improve pedestrian safety, the street was engineered to include curb extensions or bump-outs at each intersection. Here's one picture from that document to demonstrate:


In the bottom half of the picture above, there is a lane of traffic with a bike lane to the right, and then curb bump-outs that are entirely to the right of the bike lane at each intersection.

On my street, there was not enough space for this design. Instead, there is one lane of traffic in each direction, and the right side of the traffic lane aligns with the curb extension. Both traffic lanes are quite narrow, without enough room for an automobile and a bicycle to safely operate side by side.

Without enough room to place a bicycle lane that continues straight (as represented in the bottom right of the picture above), the bike lane is instead placed in between the curb extensions (in the position of the parked car in the bottom right of the picture above). Since there are curb extensions at each intersection for four blocks, the bike lane effectively ends at each intersection, with painted instructions to either continue riding straight up over the curb or into the gutter.

Effectively, this means that using the bike lane requires one to weave in and out of traffic at each intersection. IMO, this is not a particularly safe practice. I'm particularly concerned because this town has a large number of college students who are new to riding for transportation, and this design is essentially teaching them to weave in and out of the traffic lane.

Ultimately, I'd rather just not have a bike lane.
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Old 11-02-18, 12:05 PM
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Ultimately, I think that overall bike lanes are great but I think this intersection design is poor. You could ask the owner of the project (whether it is a city or your department of transportation) that they should install bike access ramps in the curb portions that kick in or out that way you have somewhere to go if a big vehicle is blocking the bike lane. Just a thought.
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Old 11-02-18, 12:12 PM
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I am seeing this same design in Orange County, CA. Can't imagine what they were thinking.
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Old 11-02-18, 02:33 PM
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I'd never use that lane--I'm going to keep a straight lane of travel. Your thread topic has it exactly right. Can you see the curb at night? Sounds like a real accident waiting to happen.
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Old 11-02-18, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jimincalif
I am seeing this same design in Orange County, CA. Can't imagine what they were thinking.
They were thinking like drivers, and just want cyclists out of the way.
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Old 11-02-18, 08:37 PM
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Many engineers... also work closely with other engineering groups.... and their own legal departments. So the legal safety of prevailing ideas... often rule the decisions/designs. I myself... would rather ride in/with traffic or stick to side streets. The bike lanes don't serve the cycling or driving public well IMHO.
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Old 11-02-18, 10:24 PM
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I like good well designed bike lanes, but many municipalities seem to just think of them as something to include when convenient, and then start and stop them when not convenient.

Those "bump outs"... appear to be good for pedestrians (get them standing closer to the cars before crossing), but bad for cyclists.

I've never seen them as start/stop terminators for bike lanes, but it is common to have them surrounding parking (which may not have cars, and thus a good cycling place), except when squeezed into traffic.

Or, if one has a parking lane, bike lane, then driving lane, I often ride as far away from the cars as possible... and those "bump outs" get in the way again.
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Old 11-03-18, 01:19 AM
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I agree with you, that if a given lane's occupants are forced to jet into and out of that lane then the design is poor.

In the case of much slower-moving traffic (such as bicycles), that design is downright dangerous to the slow movers.


Growing up, I had to cope with a tight, older busy street that was ~3 lanes per side, zero bike lane, zero extra space in the gutter area of the RH lane for even a slim "ten speed" type bike and petite rider. We all used the sidewalks. Of course, even those cut out from time to time, forcing people to use the RH lane for brief stints until the sidewalk came back again. Wasn't worth the risk, going on that street. Very dangerous, specifically because of what you indicate: forced coping with the lane appearing then disappearing ... which wreaked havoc with the level of surprise inflicted on approaching vehicles.
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Old 11-03-18, 02:15 AM
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Typical poorly designed bike lanes. At least the one I highlighted a while back (it too has faults) used islands that allowed for the bike lane to run continuously between the traffic. This is what happens when planner aren't cyclists or don't ask for input before proceeding with their designs.
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Old 11-03-18, 02:34 AM
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I've sppken out against bike lanes before, they just confuse the issue. They create a false sense of security for cyclists, they effectively mean nothing and should be treated as such.

Roads are for travelling.

What next, a horse lane?
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Old 11-03-18, 07:56 AM
  #11  
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Point it out to whichever government did the job, and if you can (maybe contact bike shops ans cycling clubs) ask other cyclists of they see an issue, and if so, make a phone call or write a lttrer.
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Old 11-03-18, 05:05 PM
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OP, I agree.
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Old 11-03-18, 06:51 PM
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I'd rather just not have a bike lane
Originally Posted by wipekitty
One of the main east-west streets in my town (La Crosse, WI) opened yesterday, after being closed for four months. Part of the ~5 block resurfacing project was supposed to include improved bicycle and pedestrian facilities

Effectively, this means that using the bike lane requires one to weave in and out of traffic at each intersection. IMO, this is not a particularly safe practice.

I'm particularly concerned because this town has a large number of college students who are new to riding for transportation, and this design is essentially teaching them to weave in and out of the traffic lane.
Originally Posted by Dave Cutter
Many engineers... also work closely with other engineering groups.... and their own legal departments. So the legal safety of prevailing ideas... often rule the decisions/designs.

I myself... would rather ride in/with traffic or stick to side streets. The bike lanes don't serve the cycling or driving public well IMHO.

Ultimately, I'd rather just not have a bike lane.
Originally Posted by CliffordK
I like good well designed bike lanes, but many municipalities seem to just think of them as something to include when convenient, and then start and stop them when not convenient.
Originally Posted by MikeyMK
I've sppken out against bike lanes before, they just confuse the issue. They create a false sense of security for cyclists, they effectively mean nothing and should be treated as such.

Roads are for travelling.

What next, a horse lane?
In response not to the specific peculiarity of the OP, but to the title of this thread itself, I have found this discussion the most convincing rebuttal to bike lanes:
Originally Posted by alathIN
Man, this is like so many internet arguments.

We need air!
No, you're wrong! We need water!

How about we ride on the roads where that works, develop new infrastructure where we need it, and enforce the laws everywhere?
:
Originally Posted by B. Carfree
Sounds great. However, we have this little problem that started in California back in '78 with prop. 13. As a result of the four decades long tax revolt it spawned, we're dealing with the ultimate priority issue: there's only so much money in the budget and it's not enough.

Some people, mostly people who are relatively new to cycling, think we should use the few dollars that can go towards improving conditions for cycling by building a few miles of separated infrastructure and place it mostly on urban roads (with the inevitable intersection failures).

Other, more experienced riders, think we would be better served by funding traffic law enforcement and putting in many more miles of proper, six to eight foot bikelanes (not in the door zone) and only putting in separate facilities where there are long stretches of high-speed road without appreciable numbers of intersections.

This difference of opinion wouldn't be such a big deal, but many of these segragationists have been making their public case by convincing everyone that cycling is too dangerous to be done anywhere except on a segregated facility. Not surprisingly, this has an impact in terms of how many people are willing to even try riding a bike since there is no way to get anywhere in the US without riding on a road.

Oddly enough, these people are called and consider themselves "bicycling advocates". If one were to design a fifth-column assault to keep cycling participation down, it would look just like the pro-separation folks
Originally Posted by Maelochs
I hate the idea of walled-off lanes, myself ... I don't want to be penned in with a bunch of cyclists ... worst group of people ....

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 11-03-18 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 11-03-18, 07:39 PM
  #14  
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Here’s a particularly egregious example in my home town. The southbound bike lane just goes away, and the thru lane for cars is so narrow they actually painted a sharrow there, just one, and by the time a driver sees the sharrow it is too late. To make it worse that is a steep downhill near a school.


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Old 11-03-18, 07:55 PM
  #15  
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This is very bad design (obviously). It's a massive safety hazard. Find out whom to complain to and complain. Organize - post things on craigslist, nextdoor.com, the regional section of bikeforums, etc. to get other cyclists to complain. Using phrases like "before someone gets killed" isn't all that hyperbolic in this case.

This is a big screw up by someone. Sounds like it could be fixed by just knocking out those bump-outs that are in the bike lanes.
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Old 11-03-18, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion
This is very bad design (obviously). It's a massive safety hazard. Find out whom to complain to and complain. Organize - post things on craigslist, nextdoor.com, the regional section of bikeforums, etc. to get other cyclists to complain. Using phrases like "before someone gets killed" isn't all that hyperbolic in this case.

This is a big screw up by someone. Sounds like it could be fixed by just knocking out those bump-outs that are in the bike lanes.
Local bike shops and local cycling clubs. That is a death trap.

I have a few less severe but otherwise similar spots on some of my rides ... the first time through, they really get the adrenal glands kicking ..... Crash or get hit is a tough call to make a 18 mph with about 1.8 seconds to choose and move.
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Old 11-04-18, 12:01 AM
  #17  
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There has already been a stink raised, but nothing will change until the city is hit with a big wrongful death judgment. Here are some explanations from the city website. I suspect the people who wrote this never even learned to ride bikes when they were kids:

: Why did they install the bulb out curbs at some intersections?

A: Many of the residents on the side streets had expressed concerns about limited sight distance as they attempted to turn onto Saddleback Road. The bulb out curbs provide an opportunity for drivers on the side streets to pull further forward into a protected area to improve sight distance and make it easier and safer to make these turns. In addition, the bulb out curbs serve as part of the traffic calming solution by causing subtle changes in the path of travel for through traffic and narrowing the travel lanes.

Q: Saddleback Ranch Road is used by bicyclists in the area. How will this project affect bicyclists?

A: Saddleback Ranch Road is considered a bike route because it is used by road cyclists and mountain bikers in the area. Although there were never striped bike lanes on Saddleback, there were wider segments of the roadway that allowed for bikes and vehicles to travel side-by-side. With the addition of the traffic calming measures, there are now certain segments of the roadway where bikes and vehicles may have to travel in single file formation. Bikes are considered vehicles by the vehicles code and therefore have the same rights and responsibilities as drivers of vehicles.

Q: Why didn’t the City install striped bike lanes?

A: In order to try to achieve the primary goal of slowing and calming traffic, it is necessary to substantially narrow the travel lanes. Even if there was space to install bike lanes (which are usually about 5-8 feet wide), doing so for any extended period would provide drivers with a sense of excess width and would, at a minimum, significantly reduce the benefits of the overall traffic calming. Where the lanes are confined by the medians and curbs (physical constraints on both sides), the travel lanes are about 13 feet wide. Although these are not ideal conditions for a bike and vehicle to share the lane, a slower moving vehicle can legally and safely pass a bicycle in this space under the right conditions. For instance, if a bike is within 3 feet of the curb this would leave about 10 feet for the car to pass. With the average vehicle being about 6 to 6 ½ feet wide and needing to allow 3 feet between the vehicle and the bike there is at least potentially an opportunity for a vehicle to pass. However, you should always remember that bikes have the same rights as vehicles and therefore bicyclists can use more of the lane, if they consider it necessary.


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Old 11-04-18, 03:59 AM
  #18  
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Okay ... so we need someone to take one for the team and get hit right there ....
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Old 11-05-18, 01:09 AM
  #19  
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Update...
I got a bit more info from a local FB cycling group. Apparently, the residents of the street were pretty gung-ho about not losing street parking (I swear, *everything* in this town revolves around parking.) People (I'm not sure if it was City officials or residents) were also into the curb extensions.

I'll try and determine who was in charge so that I can complain. Nothing will happen now until Spring, so in the meantime, it might be worth enlisting the help of some advocacy groups or folks with more political capital than I possess.

I've been avoiding the road, but decided to venture out tonight to get a few photos of urban planning at its finest.

First, the world's shortest bike lane - less than half a block:


Next, we have the sharrow pointing into the gutter:


And last but not least, instructions on how to get doored!
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Old 11-05-18, 09:28 AM
  #20  
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Based on those pictures I would not be riding in that "bike lane". It almost looks like they tried to make everyone happy with the worst compromises possible.
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Old 11-05-18, 02:51 PM
  #21  
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What they did is create the pretense of a bike lane. The sharrows should be positioned within the lane of travel (indicating a shared lane) not to the side of the road.

A dedicated bike lane should be painted green or contains the bike logo. In the above case, there is insufficient clearance next to the parked cars to consider that sufficient space for a dedicated bike lane.

Last edited by KraneXL; 11-06-18 at 02:08 AM.
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Old 11-05-18, 09:47 PM
  #22  
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Construction Projects - La Crosse, WI
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Old 11-06-18, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed
Did you want to highlight anything for us non-locals?
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Old 11-06-18, 06:12 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
Did you want to highlight anything for us non-locals?
I'm not a local so I don't know what the project name is, but each section of that page lists who the OP needs to contact about those projects.
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Old 11-06-18, 11:52 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter
Many engineers... also work closely with other engineering groups.... and their own legal departments. So the legal safety of prevailing ideas... often rule the decisions/designs. I myself... would rather ride in/with traffic or stick to side streets. The bike lanes don't serve the cycling or driving public well IMHO.
New Orleans went from zero miles of bike lanes to 100+ in ten years. I use many of them and like most of them. This said, I still have to pay attention to everything going on around me but at least I have "my space" and actually stop for red lights now and then when I'm feeling lazy. All I ever asked for was a place to exist on the street. I don't need much. It doesen't even have to be any safer. Just paint me a sliver of tarmac where I can exist and cars don't have to make decisions when they pass me.

A little paint has been a real game changer for me. And utility cycling has grown quite a bit over those 10 years. I am assuming that those cyclists would have just been more distracted motorists without the painted lanes.

A place to exist, more cyclists, less cars. I am not complaining. But I agree. The OP has a legit gripe about that stupidity.
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