Drew Eckhardt 

Campagnolo's 2020-2021 catalog has no 10 speed groups, suggesting 10 speed cassette options will dwindle.

13-26 was out of stock every place I checked. 11-25 and 13-29 also appear to be missing in action.

12-23 and 12-25 may be all that's left.

It might be time to acquire a lifetime supply of 10 or 11 speed parts, because no company makes 12 speed cassettes suitable for road riding having one tooth jumps through the 19 cog.

zacster

That's concerning. My bike is Chorus 10. I know I can convert an 11sp Shimano wheel to a 10sp Campy spacing using an Ultegra 10 cassette. You just add .2mm spacers between all the loose cogs, but that may only work on certain cassettes. I remember I couldn't replicate a 13-26, and ended up with 12-25 instead. Not too different but I know how particular people are with these things.

Litespud

Time to stock up. I’m fairly committed to 10sp for the next few years, having just had my shifters overhauled, and with a 10sp compact crankset in reserve for when the hills (such as they are in central NC) get to be too much with my current 39/23 low gear. Don’t know if I should a 12/23 or a 12/25 - I love the straight run from 12-19, whereas the 12/25 would lose the 18.

zacster

You could probably also add .3mm spacers to a Campy 11sp and drop one cog. The largest 3 cogs are joined so the spacing there wouldn't be quite right, but the largest cog is set by the limit screw, and the smallest of the 3 would be right, so that would only leave the 2nd smallest slightly off. SR and Chorus have 2 combined cog groups, only the lesser models have loose cogs.

It might work if you absolutely had to do it.

DaveSSS 

I've been riding on all types of terrain for 40 years and never had an 18T sprocket. Riders in pan flat Holland whine about it too. It's never bothered me.

My current bike has a 48/32 with an 11-34, 12 speed. All Campy 12 speed cassettes have the same 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19 sprockets. The 48/16 is virtually identical to a 53/18 and there are 1 tooth shifts on both sides of the 16. The world has not come to an end.

The next thing to whine about is having no use for an 11T sprocket. My 48/11 is about the same as a 53/12.

After that whining comes the one, where you don't need a 29T sprocket because you ride on pan flat routes. That just makes your bike have the same 11 useful gear ratios that you have now.

I don't need my 34T sprocket on every one of my routes, but most of them require it.

zacster

I have a 50/34 and a 13-26 and it is all I need for where I ride. I almost never go on the small ring and don't have any qualms about cross chaining to the 50/26 combo when I go up the small hills here in NYC. In San Francisco when I rented a bike with 50/34 and 11-34 I used the 34/34 a LOT. I kind of wimped out on the hills there, but there is no place to train for that here in NY.

I hardly ever use the 50/13 combo but again this is a NYC thing. How fast do you think you can go here and still feel safe? I get to the bottom of hills mostly by coasting and there is one place where I can crank it out once there, but that's about it. I'm 65, how hard can I push it anyway?

jgwilliams

Don't forget that SRAM's 12-speed groupsets expect you to use a smaller chainset so their 10-26 cassette, which has 1-tooth jumps from 10 up to 17, is probably equivalent.

I'd be curious to know what advantage SRAM perceive in doing this. I suppose it makes the chainset marginally lighter but I can't see any other stand-out reason.

robertorolfo

Oh boy, I'm building up my latest project with 10sp Chorus, and I'm planning on using 10sp Veloce/Centaur (Powershift FTW) for the one after that...

Currently have one 7sp Synchro equipped bike, one 8sp Synchro, one 8sp Ergopower, one 10sp Powershift, two 11sp Ultrashift.

All of that said, if they reduce the offerings to just the "Record" chains and one level of cassette (which seems to be the case for 9sp), I don't think I'll lose any sleep. That stuff seems very reasonably priced and good quality.

A couple of places that come to mind where you can really try to crank out a bit:

• The 1st avenue tunnel under the UN. You have to ride in a regular traffic lane, but the speed limit is 25mph and there is a famous speed trap at the exit of the tunnel, so most drivers stick right to 25mph. Gives you great motivation to try and pass the cars, and the entrance is downhill slightly so you don't have to do as much work to build speed.
• A section of Vernon Blvd between LIC and Astoria (just North and South of the bridge to Roosevelt Island) is pretty good. There isn't any cross street traffic, so you can hammer along in the bike line (or in the regular traffic lanes) pretty well uninterrupted for a while, with good visibility and margins for safety.

tomato coupe

You would hope Campy will eventually offer some other 12 speed cassettes. The few they offer now are ... uninspiring.

rosefarts

Hmm. I like my 10 speed.

I have a 12-30 and 11-25 in good shape. I use an 11 speed 50/34. That bike will get up some hills.

I don't put too many miles on it between all the other bikes but I'd hate to be in a position where a single component failure means upgrading the whole groupset. I don't think it will be wearing out any time soon, it doesn't get the miles.

It's a shame though, such a good groupo that I've never felt any inkling of desire to change.

DaveSSS 

12 speed cassette offerings are not likely to expand. The solution is a crankset with smaller chainrings. Then you can get the 1 tooth shifts in the same range as the current 17-18-19, but with the 15-16-17 instead. The 48/32 does just that. You won't see an 11-25 12 speed cassette.

blacknbluebikes 

Suddenly my 2005 Super Record triple is looking even better...

Drew Eckhardt 

The issue is the maximum percentage difference between adjacent cogs, not where it occurs unless that's next to the largest or smallest. With the big cog you do better not running out over having tighter spacing and coming up short. With the small cog you might prefer a jump over pedaling uncomfortably fast at a lower speed, although usually a good tuck is faster.

Most road riders don't like a 13.3% jump which is the 15-17 gap. In the 9 speed era the pro peloton ran 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23 with just one gear bigger than the 13-24 cyclists like Eddy Merckx used in the mountains

A significant minority find 11.7% from 17-19 offensive. Some pros riding Campagnolo stuck with 12-23 moving to 10 cogs, although that was the point at which 11T became common outside time trial stages.

People seem OK with 10.5% from 19-21.

I put a few thousand miles on a 14-23 straight block to play with it. Adding the 20 cog was noticeable but not worth the hassle skipping over one more cog changing rings; and the 22 didn't make an appreciable difference.

Sure, small cogs running 17-19 work. However, my bike cost more than my car to get exactly what I wanted. Otherwise I might have continued riding my 1987 Univega.

Spinning 90-100 RPM a missing 18 tooth cog produces a gearing gap where neither cog is quite right at ~21 MPH with a 50 ring or ~16 MPH with a 40.
Different rings move it around but can't eliminate it.
50-40-30 x 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21 8 cogs via the previous version of Mike Sherman's gear calculator.
That became 13-23 9 cogs in 2001 after Campagnolo eliminated 13-21 8 speed, then 13-26 10 in 2012 after a discontinued shifter spring broke.

DaveSSS 

Seems like my point was missed. A 48 big ring with a 15-16-17 is basically the same as a 53 big ring with a 17-18-19. If you think there's something magical in this gear ratio range, I have it with my 12 speed setup.

cpach

To be honest, I wouldn't necessarily read too much into current inventory. Due to COVID all sorts of supply lines and manufacturing are out of whack, and there's been a lot more bike repair, at least in the US, since stay-at-home orders have gone into effect in different places. It's very hard to get a 26" economy tire through a major distributor right now, but I wouldn't count on those disappearing.

10sp Campy is worth being somewhat more concerned about, however, because of its unique spacing and spline pattern and the fact that it's always been on the higher end of the market. 8sp Shimano parts won't disappear for some time because they're still standard on low end bikes. Hell, 6SP freewheels for Walmart bikes are still plentifully available.

As price increases for 10sp Campy cassettes, probably you'll see more shops selling back stock on eBay. Tons of shops have a handful of 10sp Campy cassettes that are difficult to sell in their local market.

tomato coupe

The OP, like many people, has a 50 tooth chain ring. Changing it to a 48 tooth chain ring would make very little difference; it would simply nudge the '18 tooth' gap over a little bit, not get rid of it.

zacster

I worked at 42nd and 2nd for 20 years. I don't think I ever once thought about going in the tunnel, no thanks. There are places on the West Side Greenway where I crank it out but I still don't get into my 50/13. And in Prospect Park at the bottom of the hill I usually turn it on in the 50/13 and keep at it along the flat section along Parkside Ave. It was 2 years ago when I was riding along there and I did that and blew away the race crowd. I'm in my 60s and grey, nobody expects it.

funbuffalo24

You're right on the money! I'm in NY and literally just last weekend ordered a NOS 12-25 ultra cassette(though not on ebay) from a small shop in CA because no local campy guys had it in stock, and a separate 16/17 cog for my existing one. The shop even called me after I placed my order and asked to confirm if I needed ultra or exa as they had a bunch of each and realized their online shop didn't specify. I'm sure the size dictated the series, but I still appreciated the call, that doesn't happen all that often.

DaveSSS 

A 50/18 is very close to a 48/17, but after the 17 is a 19. How awful. The idea of a specific perfect gear ratio is still silly, IMO. Wind conditions alone make the gear ratio requirements change, even riding the same route over and over. What was perfect one day won't be the next.

I've been riding my 48/32 cranks and 11-34 cassettes for almost a year now. If there's anything to complain about, it's the 19-22 shift. On a few occasions, neither may seem right but with the constantly changing slopes I ride, it doesn't last for more than a minute.

Litespud

Well that's great for you, but I don't see how your preferred gearing has any relevance to anyone else's. I like a tight cassette - it suits my riding style and the rolling terrain I inhabit. It works for me. There's nothing magical about the 18, but in the context of a straight 12-19 run, it gets plenty of use. Sure, I could achieve the same ratio by dipping down onto the small ring, but jumping from ring to ring to achieve a specific ratio makes no sense, when I could just use a cassette that provides that nice straight run that I prefer.

Sy Reene

I think the point is that many riders actually use their entire cassette over the course of a ride, and would prefer there to be no outsized gaps through the cassette's range.

HillRider

The first cog to disappear from 10 and 11-speed cassettes as the largest cog increases is the 16T and it's the one I miss most. My current favorite is Shimano's 12x27 10-speed and it's a straight block from 12 to 17 but these have been dropped from Shimano's cassette choices. I've never had an 18T cog and, therefore, don't miss it and the shift from 17 to 19 never seemed that big a jump. I do wonder at the prevalence of 11T small cogs on nearly every cassette these days. Even with a 50T big chainring it seems higher than most riders can use.

Since we are discussing the desirability of straight block cassettes, what about the huge range cassettes now fashionable with 1X and some 2X drivetrains. 11x34, 11,36, 11x40, even 10x51? Talk about gearing gaps!


I don't understand their reasoning either but the effect is to have the parts wear out sooner and sell more replacements.

bldegle2

Running 48/33 on a five bolt 110 BCD, and 11/36 10 speed in the rear. Lots of hills where I live, I am getting older than dirt, need the cog ratios so I can feel comfortable climbing, especially the really steep stuff.

Next setup is going to be a 46/30, and a 10/33 12 speed in the rear. Thinking outside the box, and using Sensah shifters ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/SENSAH-EMPI...kAAOSwssdek-HX ), this can be pulled off. Going 12 with the 10/33 gives a better ratio ramp up, smaller jumps, plenty of high end and very good climbing ratio with the 30. So many choices currently.

Fun to tinker...

tomato coupe

This nicely hits all the salient points.

DaveSSS 

This is incredibly outdated news. The 2015 spare parts catalog shows the same centaur 10 speed cassettes as the 2020 catalog. No chorus or record 10 cassettes. This should not be surprising, since 11 speed was available late in 2008 for the 2009 season. I switched my two bikes to 11 speed very early in 2009 and both of my bikes to 12 speed in July of last year. Absolutely no regrets.