unionmanbirch

I am 51 years old and my knees can’t push as big a gear as they used to. I am running the original components on my 1985 Schwinn Voyageur Touring Bike—Shimano Tourney XT 30/46/50 crankset with a Shimano 600 14/28 freewheel and Shimano AL-11 derailleurs. The 30 front/28 rear combo with 27” wheels gives me a low gear of 29.21 inches. Unloaded, that gets me up most hills around here, but for loaded touring? Forget it, I’m getting off and walking a lot. The Voyageur is a beautiful old bike. I'd hate to have to replace it. Changes I'm considering:

• The small chainring is 74 BCD, and the larger are 110, so I am thinking of switching to a 24/36/46 front setup which would give me a 23.48-inch small gear. Any likely issues with this?
• I have 120 mm spacing in the rear so would have to stick with a 5-speed or ultra 6-speed freewheel unless I want to stretch the frame a little. Does anyone know the largest cog this rear derailleur can accept? IRD has a 5-speed 13/32 freewheel, and I see 14/32 on eBay. Would they fit? It would give me a 20.48-inch low gear with the 24T chainring, which would be a huge improvement.

Any other suggestions to save my knees? Thanks for any help!

70sSanO

A mid-80's non-index 600EX (6207) came in short and long cage. Short cage max cog is 28t. Long cage is 34t. Since you have a triple there is a good chance because your capacity is 34t (50-30 + 28-14). The short cage max capacity is rated at 28t.

Check your rear derailleur model number and check it online... Velo Base.

FWIW... My wife had a 6208 and I pushed it to 30t with a double. May have gone to 32t, but never tested, ended up spreading rear triangle from 126mm to 130mm, added a triple and used a mountain bike rear derailleur.

John

twodownzero

You should be very happy with your proposed crank swap as long as your rear derailleur will handle it. I would consider even smaller on the granny ring if you're going to be loaded touring; there are no prizes for hammering away at 50 rpm with a load when your knees are killing you.

Aubergine 

Consider also that you can spread your rear triangle to accept a wider hub and more gears, even a modern ten or 11 speed cassette. But even without that, a 22 or 24 tooth chainring will definitely do the trick for you.

unionmanbirch

Thanks for the suggestions!
I just checked out VeloBase and the max cog size on the AL-11 is 34t. That could drop me down all the way to 19.39 inches!

HillRider

The OP's current crank has a 74 mm BCD for the granny chainring and 24T is the smallest that will fit. Going smaller will require a different crank.

Spreading that frame from 120 mm to 126 mm OLD would be fairly easy and opens up the whole world of 7-speed freewheels and with a rear wheel change, cassettes.

twodownzero

A trekking crankset can fix that. That's what I have on my touring bike.

Spreading it to 130 opens up even more options. If he wants to spend the money to change a few parts, that'd definitely be the way to go. My ladyfriend's bike has a 36 tooth cog in the rear (Shimano 105 11 speed with some kind of SRAM cassette).

HillRider

Yes, that would certainly help but, at some point, the "upgrades" approach the cost of a suitable newer bike.

Spreading a steel frame by one size (120 to 126 or 126 to 130) is easy. Going from 120 to 130 has to be done more carefully not to endanger the chainstay and seatstay bridges and you probably have to realigning the dropouts.

twodownzero

So what? I'd much rather be riding a lugged Schwinn Voyageur in my size than my "modern" touring bike. If he likes the fit, there is no harm at all in upgrading it.

I also respectfully disagree that 4mm is going to make a difference. Many, many amateurs have spread bikes from 120 to 130 without issue. This has been going on for decades and those bikes are still out there on the road.

HillRider

No, there is no harm in upgrading it and the changes the OP mentioned (smaller granny chainring and new freewheel) will be cheap and cost effective.

By the time you get into major drivetrain changes, you better really like the frame and be sure it's in good condition before spending a lot of time and money. Not hard to justify but be sure you know what you are getting into.

Spreading the dropouts from 120 to 130 can and has been done successfully many times but there are precautions for doing this.

My reading about this frame indicated the '85 and '86 Schwinn Voyagers were anomalies in the Schwinn lineup being better made of better steel tubing than almost anything else they made. This particular frame may be worth the rework if it's in good condition and rust free.

unionmanbirch

The frame is in excellent shape and I've thought about doing some major upgrades, but pretty much decided on just making a couple simple fixes I can do myself.

70sSanO

So let's recap... The OP has a 30 year old steel friction shift bike with a 5 speed freewheel and wants to lower the gearing for his knees and your recommendation is to go to 11 speed so he can spend hundreds of dollars and have a cassette that starts off with 11t-12t-13t and all the potential hassles of what an 11 speed system brings on an old morphed frame.

I have no problem with looking into opening up his world to cassettes, but I would think there is a better option. Why didn't you just suggest an entire Di2 system since every stinking drivetrain component will have to be changed from hubs to crank.

John

twodownzero

Where did I "recommend" that? Your reading comprehension skills are seriously wanting.

I affirmed the OP's original thinking that a crank swap would provide the gains he desires. A trekking crankset is designed for exactly this--more speed than a MTB triple with the deep low end gearing for climbing hills with a load on. The caveat is that the rear derailleur--whatever he uses and no matter how wide the chain is--must be able to accommodate the chain length difference.

Never did I mention upgrading to 11 speed. Spreading to 130 is required to even get to 8 speed. Even 10 year old low-end drivetrain parts could be used at that point. It would involve replacing a lot of parts, but there are a ton of $200 bicycles out there that could be stripped for these parts and it would be a huge improvement over 30 year old friction shift anything.

If he's going to cold set the frame, yes, I absolutely recommend spreading it to the modern standard so that 8, 9, 10, and 11 speed drivetrain components are all available options for him. But none of that is necessary just to get lower gearing and never did I "recommend" that.

I mentioned my ladyfriend's 11 speed cassette because it has a huge cog on the back, which makes whatever is on the front seem lower.

Also, as to the age of this frame, it has no bearing if it is in good condition. This "30 year old steel friction shift" bicycle would be mine if it was for sale at anything close to market price where I live. There are no reasonably-priced lugged steel sport touring on the market right now, so age is of little concern--there are no similar new ones to be had.

70sSanO

All well and good, but you brought up your ladyfriend's 36t 11 speed system. Why even mention it? We all have friends with all sorts of setups. How does that help the OP?

And if she needs a 36t she will probably never see the 11t in use unless she is doing some serious climbing and then I applaud her as she is a better rider than I.

John

Iride01 

Though Shimano rated your RD at 34 max cog, it may handle a little more. I'd think that Shimano is conservative with that number as well as the other numbers. So if you can find a freewheel with a bigger than 34 cog, and your RD handles it, you might not need to change the front chain wheels.

With a 24 front and 34 rear, the joggers are going to be piling up behind you waiting to pass. Maybe some walkers too if your cadence is low.

70sSanO

I'd still go with a 24t. You can run the 24t in higher than gears than the 34. I can't say how far you can push the cross chaining, but you could probably get 4 out of the 5 gears.

My mountain bikes are 24/34 and I'll run the 24 uphill in anything from a 13 to a 34. Granted the terrain is different, but it is nice to have a bailout when needed.

John

Retro Grouch 

How much lower of a gear are you looking for?

I'm thinking that you are trying to do this as cheaply as possible. If so, and it was my bike, I'd swap freewheels for a 14/34. You'll also need a new, longer chain but, with new sprockets, you'd be well advised to do that anyway. I'll leave it to you to look up the gear progression and decide if that's likely to be enough help.

Making a crankset change is probably going to be a bit more costly and, on a bike that old, you are likely to also need to replace the bottom bracket to go along with the crankset and chain.

Iride01 

Going to a seven speed freewheel on the rear is doable. Likely there is enough spring in the stays already to let the dropouts spread another 5mm.

I have a '78 Raleigh Competition that had a 5 speed rear when I bought it. I put a 7 speed freewheel on it and all I had to do was add a spacer to the axle on the right. I might have had to move the bearing cones over to even out the remaining axle sticking out, but I don't remember for certain. The wheel didn't need re-dishing either. And I was able to use the same 5 speed Campagnolo DR that was on the bike.

No issues finding all the gears once I cleaned up and adjusted the RD , but I only had a 2 speed on the front. I didn't have to change the chain right away, but I realized later that it was a little on the short side by the general rules of chain sizing and replaced it. However it wasn't giving me any issues.

3x front is going to make your chain line more critical. So if you go so far as to change cranks and BB along with going for more cogs on the freewheel, you might consider a BB that lets you adjust the chain line if your current one does not.

70sSanO

Re-read that your derailleurs are AL-11. Rear is still 34t max cog with an amazing 40t capacity. Can't find the capacity of the front derailleur. Guessing it is 20t. 24 to 46 is outside of this. Probably okay, but not sure.

John

twodownzero

It illustrates what is available and therefore possible if he decides to make more aggressive changes. If I was looking for lower gears and I was thinking about changing the crankset, I'd want to know what I could do to possibly change the rear if the crankset wasn't enough or didn't give the gear spacing I wanted or whatever. A 36t rear cog on a road bike was new to me the first time I saw my friend's bike.

The 36t came on the bike from the factory, so it isn't a matter of need. And she certainly needs the 48x11 to come back down the mountains she climbs with the big cog.

If there's a 34t rear that is probably an easier solution, although a chain and freewheel might even cost more than a cheap crankset.

There are square taper cranks out there still, so I wouldn't be so sure a new BB will be needed, although replacing a 30 year old bottom bracket probably isn't a bad idea, either.

I believe I paid $40 for the crankset that is on my touring bike (48/38/28I believe). The only reason I bought it is that it has a chain guard on it, which at the time seemed useful, but in retrospect is somewhat useless. But the crankset has held up nicely for the past two years. It's very similar to this one:

Shimano Acera M361 Square Crankset | Jenson USA

I've considered swapping it out because it's somewhat strange to have a $2500 bicycle with a $30 crankset, but it really does work just fine and I have no complaints--even with a 10 speed chain on an 8 speed crankset.

A 28t front only gives 1:1 though, which isn't as low as the 30x34 in your proposed solution. Going lower would involve buying a chainring; I can only assume this would add $20 to the project.

unionmanbirch

Update:
I ended up putting a 14-34 skip tooth freewheel and 24-36-46 chainrings on the Voyageur. I had to adjust the front derailleur a little bit to get it to shift into the small ring, but I took the old gal for a 24 mile ride today with no problems. Had to search for some steep hills, but once I found them I made it up without even dropping down into the 34T. I'm going to take her out for an overnight next weekend. Thanks everyone!

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