Jinxed (and in need of some bike handling advice)
07-01-15, 10:32 AM
#26
feros ferio
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My thoughts; break up the group as you approach the hazard, RR track, bridges, broken pavement, etc. give each rider his\her own clear view of the road.
Slow down, get off the seat, pedals level, slow down, lossen[sic] your grip on the bars. Let the bike move under you, use your arms and legs to absorb the bumps.
RR tracks can vary greatly, some are fixed to be little more than a ripple, others can be big bumps or holes, or both! The smooth ones you can ride over at a greater speed than the rough ones you have to go over slowly. Also, if they are on a curve(I have a RR cossing on a curve on a regular route, don't ask why) make sure you are upright, and not leaned over in the turn. The smooth steel can be slippery when dry, like ice when wet. Caution and riding them on your own is the key.
Slow down, get off the seat, pedals level, slow down, lossen[sic] your grip on the bars. Let the bike move under you, use your arms and legs to absorb the bumps.
RR tracks can vary greatly, some are fixed to be little more than a ripple, others can be big bumps or holes, or both! The smooth ones you can ride over at a greater speed than the rough ones you have to go over slowly. Also, if they are on a curve(I have a RR cossing on a curve on a regular route, don't ask why) make sure you are upright, and not leaned over in the turn. The smooth steel can be slippery when dry, like ice when wet. Caution and riding them on your own is the key.
I have also given up my youthful fascination with narrow, low-profile tires, preferring 700Cx28 Contis (actual width 25.5mm) on the Bianchi and wider tires on the other bikes. If the pavement is going to be slick, I ride the mountain bike.
Get well soon, Tigat -- your numerous friends and fans are rooting for you.
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
07-01-15, 10:35 AM
#27
feros ferio
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Same here, particularly in a crosswind, although I could see where that might be tougher with one arm.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
07-01-15, 10:46 AM
#28
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Sorry to hear about it. 
Just a thought about rumble stripping. I've noticed two things about it:
1. It's not particularly awful if you see it coming and prepare for it. If you're not ... lookout. On the Race Across the West Last year, I was moving along at about 24 MPH in my aerobars, and ran over some rumble stripping in new pavement that was nearly invisible in the twilight. It knocked my elbows right off of the pads and I entered a steering oscillation that nearly had me crash. Oy, that was close.
2. How awful it is depends on the how the natural frequency of your bike compares to the characteristics of the rumble stripping. I've noticed that 95% of the time, the bike is completely controllable, but if you get your speed just right, the bike is damn (and unexpectedly) hard to control.
I dunno about RR tracks. They scare the crap out of me, and I know quite a few people who have had very serious injuries with them. I go over them at as close to a 90 degree angle as possible, and haven't fallen yet, but you're making me think that maybe I should consider walking them.
Just a thought about rumble stripping. I've noticed two things about it:
1. It's not particularly awful if you see it coming and prepare for it. If you're not ... lookout. On the Race Across the West Last year, I was moving along at about 24 MPH in my aerobars, and ran over some rumble stripping in new pavement that was nearly invisible in the twilight. It knocked my elbows right off of the pads and I entered a steering oscillation that nearly had me crash. Oy, that was close.
2. How awful it is depends on the how the natural frequency of your bike compares to the characteristics of the rumble stripping. I've noticed that 95% of the time, the bike is completely controllable, but if you get your speed just right, the bike is damn (and unexpectedly) hard to control.
I dunno about RR tracks. They scare the crap out of me, and I know quite a few people who have had very serious injuries with them. I go over them at as close to a 90 degree angle as possible, and haven't fallen yet, but you're making me think that maybe I should consider walking them.
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07-01-15, 10:50 AM
#29
just another gosling
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I haven't done many organized rides, so I've racked up a lot of miles without pace lines, but I'm still wondering why one was needed for your ride.
You aren't racing, so there would be no reason to be hitting the RR tracks hard. I'm surprised you didn't take out half your pace line with your crash.
I regularly hit a few RR tracks that I'm very familiar with. I always slow down for them. Some are at an angle. I'm frequently leaning from turning when going across the diagonals. Others are unnecessarily rough, and I just don't like hitting them at a high speed.
There is a jagged WWWW shaped expansion joint that I regularly hit. I've never had problems with it, but I usually slow to a walk and take two steps to get across. Another has a big pile of tar right where I'd like my bike to be. I just plan ahead, although I often hit that one fast, just moving into the traffic lane a bit.
In either case I don't think I would want to be drug across the obstacles by a pace line, especially unfamiliar ones. And if the pace line isn't willing to slow down for such obstacles, or riders needs, it wouldn't be a group I'd want to ride with.
Of course, the unexpected does happen, and just always keep a strong enough grip on the bars that you won't loose them.
You aren't racing, so there would be no reason to be hitting the RR tracks hard. I'm surprised you didn't take out half your pace line with your crash.
I regularly hit a few RR tracks that I'm very familiar with. I always slow down for them. Some are at an angle. I'm frequently leaning from turning when going across the diagonals. Others are unnecessarily rough, and I just don't like hitting them at a high speed.
There is a jagged WWWW shaped expansion joint that I regularly hit. I've never had problems with it, but I usually slow to a walk and take two steps to get across. Another has a big pile of tar right where I'd like my bike to be. I just plan ahead, although I often hit that one fast, just moving into the traffic lane a bit.
In either case I don't think I would want to be drug across the obstacles by a pace line, especially unfamiliar ones. And if the pace line isn't willing to slow down for such obstacles, or riders needs, it wouldn't be a group I'd want to ride with.
Of course, the unexpected does happen, and just always keep a strong enough grip on the bars that you won't loose them.
Turn before you get to the tracks, not while on them. Make an S with the tracks in the middle.
I've only seen two paceline accidents, one of which involved tracks which turned as they crossed the road. The further right, the more acute the angle. Not everyone picked up on that and one rider had his rear triangle shattered by the next rider after he fell. Everyone was fine though his ride was over. But stuff like this is very rare. Even in big crashes at high speed in grand tours, most riders remount and continue. The other accident was just stupid. A guy carelessly got overlap on the rider ahead and had nowhere to go when that rider moved right.
I've gone down 3 times. The first was on tracks when I was maybe 19. I didn't know anything, including that tracks were dangerous. I was riding tight toeclips and turned completely upside down onto my sunburned back, bike attached. That was uncomfortable but I was essentially undamaged. The second time, I was surprised by an approaching walker on the shoulder and forgot that the road had a 2" high lip where it met the shoulder. Tegaderm time. The third was a week ago when I tried to take an extremely tight bike trail switchback on the tandem. The switchback was on a 12% downhill. We made the switchback, but I got too close to the asphalt trail edge dropoff about 20' later and we went off down the hill into some saplings. No great damage other than cosmetic, bike was fine.
Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 07-01-15 at 10:56 AM.
07-01-15, 11:56 AM
#30
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I'm glad some others have chimed in on the comments about group riding, so hopefully this does not sound too defensive.
The group I was riding with did indeed slow and space out for the tracks, which is why, thank goodness, my tumble didn't effect anyone else. The speed we hit it at was fine for me, and everyone else last year, but the size of the initial pop had apparently increased. The speed of my approach was my wrong decision, not at all influenced by the group setting.
As for why the group spends some of the time drafting in a charity ride, they use this annual event as a teambuilding exercise for customers, vendors and the sponsoring company. A number of the riders come in from out of town. Nobody is on the clock. They take advantage of virtually every rest stop, eat a leisurely lunch, welcome and coach newbies, and behave in all respects like grownups. They are one of the few groups I ride with in any setting, because they are a delight.
Riding with a draft helps everyone stay fresher and go farther, and lets the stronger riders carry the folks that may not have had as much chance to train. It was particularly helpful last year, when 20 mph headwinds over the first 60 miles would have made a solo ride a true slog.
To each his own, but if they'll have me back next year, I'll gladly ride with them again.
The group I was riding with did indeed slow and space out for the tracks, which is why, thank goodness, my tumble didn't effect anyone else. The speed we hit it at was fine for me, and everyone else last year, but the size of the initial pop had apparently increased. The speed of my approach was my wrong decision, not at all influenced by the group setting.
As for why the group spends some of the time drafting in a charity ride, they use this annual event as a teambuilding exercise for customers, vendors and the sponsoring company. A number of the riders come in from out of town. Nobody is on the clock. They take advantage of virtually every rest stop, eat a leisurely lunch, welcome and coach newbies, and behave in all respects like grownups. They are one of the few groups I ride with in any setting, because they are a delight.
Riding with a draft helps everyone stay fresher and go farther, and lets the stronger riders carry the folks that may not have had as much chance to train. It was particularly helpful last year, when 20 mph headwinds over the first 60 miles would have made a solo ride a true slog.
To each his own, but if they'll have me back next year, I'll gladly ride with them again.
07-01-15, 12:16 PM
#31
Hardening the F up
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07-01-15, 01:36 PM
#32
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Tigaat- I feel your pain. In early June I did Biking Across Kansas. Day one 20 miles into the 500+ tour I caught the tracks in Ulysses, KS just wrong. An abrupt and violent demonstration of inertia and momentum took place. Fortunately I only had sever road rash on my right leg and bruising on my right hip and shoulder. A bent derailleur and a slight wobble in the front wheel were the only other damage. I got up and finished the day and ultimately the full ride.
I have ridden over tracks hundreds of times and never had a problem. These were at a diagonal and I just missed the angle. I walked across a few more sets of tracks over the next week and will, most likely walk a few more in the future.
Here's to a speedy recovery.
I have ridden over tracks hundreds of times and never had a problem. These were at a diagonal and I just missed the angle. I walked across a few more sets of tracks over the next week and will, most likely walk a few more in the future.
Here's to a speedy recovery.
07-01-15, 03:10 PM
#33
feros ferio
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Tigat, who rides a Trek with a really slick electronic shift setup. Also, the elder half of last year's Swiss father-daughter RAAM team. We have another BF member with a paralyzed hand, as well. All three have earned my respect.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
07-01-15, 03:27 PM
#34
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I'll say ... pretty damn impressive.
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07-02-15, 07:16 AM
#35
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Seems that a lot of people didn't know about our Tigat, and his inner strength, and determination, from some of the replies above. Thankfully none were out of line, just giving some thoughtful advice like the 50+ does so well. He is one of the members I look up to, and use as an example of courage, determination, and being a gentleman. Besides, that Project One Trek is one sweet ride, and the engineering is a dream, for this old slide rule jockey, too.
And, riding in a pace line during a charity ride, or say a club ride, isn't out of line at all. It saves some time, and effort, by providing a wind break, and it isn't necessarily done in the same fashion as a race pace line. In the 70s our local club at the time, we always taught new riders/members the safe procedures for riding in a pace line first off. This way when we were on our long Sunday rides we could share the work, and still get in the mileage we all were looking to accomplish. Sure, as some points a rider may crash, but being alert, and aware of how to react to an accident while riding, the risks can be reduced and in many cases avoided.
Tigat just got caught out, and thankfully he wasn't hurt even worse and didn't take out others. He had a really gruesome crash not to long ago, so he is well aware of what can happen.Its all a part of cycling, for most of us.
Bill
And, riding in a pace line during a charity ride, or say a club ride, isn't out of line at all. It saves some time, and effort, by providing a wind break, and it isn't necessarily done in the same fashion as a race pace line. In the 70s our local club at the time, we always taught new riders/members the safe procedures for riding in a pace line first off. This way when we were on our long Sunday rides we could share the work, and still get in the mileage we all were looking to accomplish. Sure, as some points a rider may crash, but being alert, and aware of how to react to an accident while riding, the risks can be reduced and in many cases avoided.
Tigat just got caught out, and thankfully he wasn't hurt even worse and didn't take out others. He had a really gruesome crash not to long ago, so he is well aware of what can happen.Its all a part of cycling, for most of us.
Bill
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I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13
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I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13
07-02-15, 07:23 AM
#36
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Really? I wish I knew that! I rode the RAW on a team last year and saw them. It would have been nice to say hi.
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07-02-15, 06:54 PM
#37
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07-02-15, 07:04 PM
#38
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Didn't know that about you Tigat.
There's a fellow I ride with who has one prosthetic arm that doesn't allow him to do any manual manipulation - at the end it has an open tube that slips around the bars, and so he can use it for weight and balance and steering. He operates both brakes and both shifters with the other hand, based on a custom build from Trek. Well, I'm very impressed by him, but I was also impressed by his tale of how accommodating Trek was to help him get set up - he visited the factory at Madison and they designed the bars, shifters, etc. around his needs.
There's a fellow I ride with who has one prosthetic arm that doesn't allow him to do any manual manipulation - at the end it has an open tube that slips around the bars, and so he can use it for weight and balance and steering. He operates both brakes and both shifters with the other hand, based on a custom build from Trek. Well, I'm very impressed by him, but I was also impressed by his tale of how accommodating Trek was to help him get set up - he visited the factory at Madison and they designed the bars, shifters, etc. around his needs.
07-02-15, 08:20 PM
#39
Squeaky Wheel
On my daily commute I cross two sets of tracks that are at a steep angle to the road and due to the road/lane configuration I cannot get perpendicular to cross the tracks. My solution is to keep my speed up and lift my front wheel over each rail. The back wheel may slide on the rail a bit, especially when it's wet, but will catch when it contacts the pavement. From years of mountain biking over wet roots here in the Pacific Northwest i'm comfortable with the feeling of the rear wheel being momentarily loose and know that if by staying with it the wheel will quickly catch. The lifting motion is easy to practice by taking your bike out to a grass field and laying rope or sticks out that you can work on un-weighting or lifting your front wheel without worrying about the consequences.
-
I wish you a speedy recovery and I hope that your bike is OK.
-
I wish you a speedy recovery and I hope that your bike is OK.
07-03-15, 06:05 AM
#40
aka Phil Jungels
Glad to hear you are doing reasonably well - and I sure hope I don't run into you in a dark alley, when you are pissed!
Mend quickly, and godspeed!
forgot to add- why are you blaming Jinx?
Mend quickly, and godspeed!
forgot to add- why are you blaming Jinx?
07-03-15, 07:04 AM
#41
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You've got to blame somebody, right?
Again, thanks to all.
Wanderer: if you or your bud would be kind enough to snap and post some pictures of the setup, here and/or in the adaptive forum, it would be awesome. As I've posted before, in addition to their general passion for bikes and people who ride them, there's a team at Trek that is committed to making adaptations that open doors for folks like me. Very cool.
Again, thanks to all.
Wanderer: if you or your bud would be kind enough to snap and post some pictures of the setup, here and/or in the adaptive forum, it would be awesome. As I've posted before, in addition to their general passion for bikes and people who ride them, there's a team at Trek that is committed to making adaptations that open doors for folks like me. Very cool.
07-10-15, 03:07 PM
#42
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tigat... post some pictures of the setup ... it would be awesome.
Hope you are feeling better, and that bike is all OK.
In Canada, we are blessed with War Amps, who have used the financial strength derived from their successful 'key tags' service to fund ALL children with limb deficiencies (CHAMPS).
My son Alex has benefited from that program. I attach a link to a pamphlet they issue to help cyclists https://www.waramps.ca/uploadedFiles/...ingaidsarm.pdf
You will note that some ideas are not relevant for you. I know that organisations in USA offer information that meets/exceeds the above material (but likely not the financial assistance!) - but cannot immediately lay my hands on it..
In my (limited) experience, various lessons need to be applied in dealing with limb differences for any activity, including:
(i) each individual has unique (a) limb differences & (b) objectives they want to achieve - what is best for one is unlikely to be best for another;
(ii) ease of disengagement is a critical parameter.
As for Trek - one of the dedicated Trek stores in Toronto (on Young St) provided superb service in setting up my son's bike to be able to operate braking/gear changes using one hand (all at no added cost!)
Last edited by FamilyMan007; 07-10-15 at 03:10 PM. Reason: Add comment re Trek
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