Tubular mounting
08-11-23, 12:56 AM
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Tubular mounting
Jantex tape versus Vittoria Mastic One?
08-11-23, 04:53 AM
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Personal preference, both are decent if used right.
Eons ago, I came to prefer glue, though a different brand, no longer made. That's because I found it easier to reposition the tire to eliminate "tread wobble".
OTOH I have comparably experienced friends who feel that tape offers a better bond and does a better job preventing "creep" when long descents heat the rims.
Just pick one. It's not a lifetime commitment and you can change your mind at any time.
Eons ago, I came to prefer glue, though a different brand, no longer made. That's because I found it easier to reposition the tire to eliminate "tread wobble".
OTOH I have comparably experienced friends who feel that tape offers a better bond and does a better job preventing "creep" when long descents heat the rims.
Just pick one. It's not a lifetime commitment and you can change your mind at any time.
08-11-23, 07:05 AM
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Gotcha! I've used glue(s) for a number of years. For a long time I saw no tapes on the market until Jantex appeared at an LBS. I've used it for a few bikes, and on the one I'm now re-tiring I had it on there for about 10 years - was a pain to get it off, btw, but much easier than when I tried Tufo Extra-strong! I've also had decent results with Mastic and others over the years. Creep hasn't been particularly noticeable, except with multiply-glued rims that were not cleaned. With this set the tape's glue and residue came off very readily, leaving a near-perfect aluminum surface.
The reason for me raising this question was some of the notes and comments I've read on BF over the years, but mainly on Road or on C&V. In some cases less-experienced riders have said that some tapes, Jantex included were actually intended to be two-step processes. But with my recent experience I think the tire adhesion is certainly adequate for me riding local loops and in the neighborhood. I'm not racing or climbing fast, so my side and traction loadings are not very high in the first place.
I think I'm gonna work through my stash of Jantex before going back to glue! And if these new Vittoria tires are pretty flat-resistant, I won't be swapping tires much at all.
The reason for me raising this question was some of the notes and comments I've read on BF over the years, but mainly on Road or on C&V. In some cases less-experienced riders have said that some tapes, Jantex included were actually intended to be two-step processes. But with my recent experience I think the tire adhesion is certainly adequate for me riding local loops and in the neighborhood. I'm not racing or climbing fast, so my side and traction loadings are not very high in the first place.
I think I'm gonna work through my stash of Jantex before going back to glue! And if these new Vittoria tires are pretty flat-resistant, I won't be swapping tires much at all.
08-11-23, 07:14 AM
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IIRC there was a really good glue, and that's the one no longer made. What brand was that?
One other advantage of tape is that you are sure to have the requisite amount of adhesive. Back when I was fifteen I skimped on glue and one night was riding home in the dark swerving from side to side to amuse myself. Tire rolled off into the brake and I went over the handlebars. Cracked jaw, 13 teeth damaged, they had to scrape the dirt out of my jawbone before stiching me up (13 stitches).
One other advantage of tape is that you are sure to have the requisite amount of adhesive. Back when I was fifteen I skimped on glue and one night was riding home in the dark swerving from side to side to amuse myself. Tire rolled off into the brake and I went over the handlebars. Cracked jaw, 13 teeth damaged, they had to scrape the dirt out of my jawbone before stiching me up (13 stitches).
08-11-23, 07:41 AM
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When I started riding sew ups (about 1974) Dunlop was the glue me and my friends used and it's no longer offered. The Wobler and Panasonic glues were pretty close (and both also gone). Both were what we called "brown" glues that didn't dry too fast, allowed on the road tire removal w/o serious efforts/tools but also didn't retain much of their stickiness after a flat tire removal, which led me to the Jantex tape. I carried a roll for many years for on the road spare tire installing.
When I first learned of Jantex 76 I was told it really wanted a base layer of glue on both the rim and the spare tire for best holding. On the road flats fit this well with the old tire's gluing being the rim's layer and my spares were nearly always an old tire that had old glue still on them. For new stuff or truly cleaned rims I would not suggest tape w/o any base layers of glue. Some tire brands (Conti as example) have a base tape that is not yet coated, the fiber (cotton I believe) is still bare of any latex or glue. For these tires I apply two base coats as the prep layer for the tire.
The last bit I'll offer out is that IME the tape's glue has a shelf life. Much like old Velox rim tape the Jantex won't retain it's stickiness in the unused roll for too many years
I have a couple still in their cute little cardboard "boxes" that are only safe to look at, not use any longer.
Not yet mentioned is 3M FasTac glue. This is a fast drying fairly thin glue that is pretty low cost. Features that some shops liked, cheap to get from many sources, fast to brush on and fast to dry (important if your customers don't respect the need for glue to fully cure before riding). But it retains zero after tire removal stickiness and the fast drying makes centering the tire on the rim much more challenging.
My choice is real tubular tire glue for the mountings done at home or in the shop, with tape for the on the ride flats. Andy
When I first learned of Jantex 76 I was told it really wanted a base layer of glue on both the rim and the spare tire for best holding. On the road flats fit this well with the old tire's gluing being the rim's layer and my spares were nearly always an old tire that had old glue still on them. For new stuff or truly cleaned rims I would not suggest tape w/o any base layers of glue. Some tire brands (Conti as example) have a base tape that is not yet coated, the fiber (cotton I believe) is still bare of any latex or glue. For these tires I apply two base coats as the prep layer for the tire.
The last bit I'll offer out is that IME the tape's glue has a shelf life. Much like old Velox rim tape the Jantex won't retain it's stickiness in the unused roll for too many years
I have a couple still in their cute little cardboard "boxes" that are only safe to look at, not use any longer.Not yet mentioned is 3M FasTac glue. This is a fast drying fairly thin glue that is pretty low cost. Features that some shops liked, cheap to get from many sources, fast to brush on and fast to dry (important if your customers don't respect the need for glue to fully cure before riding). But it retains zero after tire removal stickiness and the fast drying makes centering the tire on the rim much more challenging.
My choice is real tubular tire glue for the mountings done at home or in the shop, with tape for the on the ride flats. Andy
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08-11-23, 08:20 AM
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I have not tried tape. Don't intend to. I can glue up a tie in less than 10 in with a latex cloved finger. Mastic is my choice as it is fluid long enough to spread evenly. Now that I have the process down, it is not a pain as others exprewss.
This time around centering the tire was pretty easy too.
VitCorsaG23x700 on Flickr
You may want to cruise through this thread Totally Tubular - Page 119 - Bike Forums.
This time around centering the tire was pretty easy too.
VitCorsaG23x700 on FlickrYou may want to cruise through this thread Totally Tubular - Page 119 - Bike Forums.
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08-12-23, 09:11 AM
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08-12-23, 03:40 PM
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When I started riding sew ups (about 1974) Dunlop was the glue me and my friends used and it's no longer offered. The Wobler and Panasonic glues were pretty close (and both also gone). Both were what we called "brown" glues that didn't dry too fast, allowed on the road tire removal w/o serious efforts/tools but also didn't retain much of their stickiness after a flat tire removal, which led me to the Jantex tape. I carried a roll for many years for on the road spare tire installing.
When I first learned of Jantex 76 I was told it really wanted a base layer of glue on both the rim and the spare tire for best holding. On the road flats fit this well with the old tire's gluing being the rim's layer and my spares were nearly always an old tire that had old glue still on them. For new stuff or truly cleaned rims I would not suggest tape w/o any base layers of glue. Some tire brands (Conti as example) have a base tape that is not yet coated, the fiber (cotton I believe) is still bare of any latex or glue. For these tires I apply two base coats as the prep layer for the tire.
The last bit I'll offer out is that IME the tape's glue has a shelf life. Much like old Velox rim tape the Jantex won't retain it's stickiness in the unused roll for too many years I have a couple still in their cute little cardboard "boxes" that are only safe to look at, not use any longer.
Not yet mentioned is 3M FasTac glue. This is a fast drying fairly thin glue that is pretty low cost. Features that some shops liked, cheap to get from many sources, fast to brush on and fast to dry (important if your customers don't respect the need for glue to fully cure before riding). But it retains zero after tire removal stickiness and the fast drying makes centering the tire on the rim much more challenging.
My choice is real tubular tire glue for the mountings done at home or in the shop, with tape for the on the ride flats. Andy
When I first learned of Jantex 76 I was told it really wanted a base layer of glue on both the rim and the spare tire for best holding. On the road flats fit this well with the old tire's gluing being the rim's layer and my spares were nearly always an old tire that had old glue still on them. For new stuff or truly cleaned rims I would not suggest tape w/o any base layers of glue. Some tire brands (Conti as example) have a base tape that is not yet coated, the fiber (cotton I believe) is still bare of any latex or glue. For these tires I apply two base coats as the prep layer for the tire.
The last bit I'll offer out is that IME the tape's glue has a shelf life. Much like old Velox rim tape the Jantex won't retain it's stickiness in the unused roll for too many years
I have a couple still in their cute little cardboard "boxes" that are only safe to look at, not use any longer.Not yet mentioned is 3M FasTac glue. This is a fast drying fairly thin glue that is pretty low cost. Features that some shops liked, cheap to get from many sources, fast to brush on and fast to dry (important if your customers don't respect the need for glue to fully cure before riding). But it retains zero after tire removal stickiness and the fast drying makes centering the tire on the rim much more challenging.
My choice is real tubular tire glue for the mountings done at home or in the shop, with tape for the on the ride flats. Andy
What have you seen go wrong if you do not use rim and tire coats, i.e. you install a tire with tape alone? I have installed a pair of new tires on a pair of unglued rims, and they were among the most tightly held old tire installations I have had the task of de-mounting.
08-12-23, 04:32 PM
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My Jantex is also labelled "Specialitee Velox." No year is given, but I think they are about 7 to 10 years old.
What have you seen go wrong if you do not use rim and tire coats, i.e. you install a tire with tape alone? I have installed a pair of new tires on a pair of unglued rims, and they were among the most tightly held old tire installations I have had the task of de-mounting.
What have you seen go wrong if you do not use rim and tire coats, i.e. you install a tire with tape alone? I have installed a pair of new tires on a pair of unglued rims, and they were among the most tightly held old tire installations I have had the task of de-mounting.
over all seems like 50/50 on what people like gluing really is not that hard
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08-12-23, 05:39 PM
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Riding unsecured sew ups is inviting tire creep at best and roll offs at worst. Andy
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08-12-23, 07:53 PM
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I spooned a fresh tire on after a sidewall blowout.. and forgot to glue it when i got home...I hit a picket fence at 35mph.. it took a few days to get all the gravel and splinters out of my left arm and right knee.... but i was leading when i hit the fence, so.....
i became a much happier person when i switched to those new fangled things called "Specialized Turbo Clincher Tires".
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08-12-23, 09:42 PM
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When I started riding sew ups (about 1974) Dunlop was the glue me and my friends used and it's no longer offered. The Wobler and Panasonic glues were pretty close (and both also gone). Both were what we called "brown" glues that didn't dry too fast, allowed on the road tire removal w/o serious efforts/tools but also didn't retain much of their stickiness after a flat tire removal, which led me to the Jantex tape. I carried a roll for many years for on the road spare tire installing.
When I first learned of Jantex 76 I was told it really wanted a base layer of glue on both the rim and the spare tire for best holding. On the road flats fit this well with the old tire's gluing being the rim's layer and my spares were nearly always an old tire that had old glue still on them. For new stuff or truly cleaned rims I would not suggest tape w/o any base layers of glue. Some tire brands (Conti as example) have a base tape that is not yet coated, the fiber (cotton I believe) is still bare of any latex or glue. For these tires I apply two base coats as the prep layer for the tire.
The last bit I'll offer out is that IME the tape's glue has a shelf life. Much like old Velox rim tape the Jantex won't retain it's stickiness in the unused roll for too many years I have a couple still in their cute little cardboard "boxes" that are only safe to look at, not use any longer.
Not yet mentioned is 3M FasTac glue. This is a fast drying fairly thin glue that is pretty low cost. Features that some shops liked, cheap to get from many sources, fast to brush on and fast to dry (important if your customers don't respect the need for glue to fully cure before riding). But it retains zero after tire removal stickiness and the fast drying makes centering the tire on the rim much more challenging.
My choice is real tubular tire glue for the mountings done at home or in the shop, with tape for the on the ride flats. Andy
When I first learned of Jantex 76 I was told it really wanted a base layer of glue on both the rim and the spare tire for best holding. On the road flats fit this well with the old tire's gluing being the rim's layer and my spares were nearly always an old tire that had old glue still on them. For new stuff or truly cleaned rims I would not suggest tape w/o any base layers of glue. Some tire brands (Conti as example) have a base tape that is not yet coated, the fiber (cotton I believe) is still bare of any latex or glue. For these tires I apply two base coats as the prep layer for the tire.
The last bit I'll offer out is that IME the tape's glue has a shelf life. Much like old Velox rim tape the Jantex won't retain it's stickiness in the unused roll for too many years
I have a couple still in their cute little cardboard "boxes" that are only safe to look at, not use any longer.Not yet mentioned is 3M FasTac glue. This is a fast drying fairly thin glue that is pretty low cost. Features that some shops liked, cheap to get from many sources, fast to brush on and fast to dry (important if your customers don't respect the need for glue to fully cure before riding). But it retains zero after tire removal stickiness and the fast drying makes centering the tire on the rim much more challenging.
My choice is real tubular tire glue for the mountings done at home or in the shop, with tape for the on the ride flats. Andy
08-13-23, 10:20 AM
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It is a good idea to have some reminder that your tire is unglued after a spare swap. Like your spare is a different color or brand, or you hang the flatted tire over the bars or something obvious to remember that you need to glue a good one one before the next ride.
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