Roody

The tragic train crash in Philadelphia has surfaced a lot of issues related to train travel as an alternative to cars and planes. I know there is deep support for trains among members of this forum, while a few, including myself, are less gung-ho. What were your thoughts about the train wreck and about trains in general? What role can trains play in the lives of people who are trying to be carlight/carfree, and how can they be improved for us?

Ekdog

Trains are the safest ways to travel, even in a country like the United States where they are underfunded and rail infrastructure is akin to that in the Third World. I commute by bike and train daily. It's fast, efficient, comfortable and safe. What isn't to love about it?

[h=3]Motorcycles[/h]125 deaths per billion miles – Motorcycles account for 1% of road traffic but account for 20% of road-fatalities! But, that equals 1 in every 800,000 miles traveled.
[HR][/HR][h=3]Walking[/h]41 deaths per billion miles – 453 people died last year while footing it to wherever they were going. This blows my mind. Probably got hit by one of the ‘safer’ modes of transportation…
[HR][/HR][h=3]Bicycles[/h]35 deaths per billion miles – 122 people lost their lives last year while biking and we’re not talking about the high-flying bmx x-games kinda stunts either… Turns out almost all of these fatalities came when our #4 mode of travel collided with them.
[HR][/HR][h=3]Ferries[/h]20 deaths per billion miles – Crazy, this is actually the least safe mode of public transportation believe it or not, never even would’ve thought to include it in a survey much less ask about how safe this one is but there you have it.
[HR][/HR][h=3]The Space Shuttle[/h]7 deaths per billion miles – We can all remember fatal shuttle disasters and where we were and what we were doing when they happened because they are so rare, but only 18 out of the 530 people that have even been on one have died. This one would seem to be the most dangerous of them all, but only rolls in right in the middle of the field at #5.
[HR][/HR][h=3]Cars[/h]4 deaths per billion miles. Around 5 people a day die in cars and some 883 people met their maker last year while driving or being driven in the most dangerous form of transportation, but it still rolls in at the 4th safest (I know, weird.) given the improvements to car design and other safety measures.
[HR][/HR][h=3]Airplanes[/h]0.5 deaths per billion miles – There were 475 deaths last year in only 23 plane crashes worldwide, the least deaths since 1945!! You have a 1-in-45 million chance of dying on an airplane. You’re more likely to get attacked by a shark, struck by lightning, become a billionaire or become President of this great nation than you are to become an airplane fatality. Not a single person has died in an airplane crash in the U.S. in the last four years, that’s 40 million flights without incident. However, for all of us light aircraft people, the odds of us becoming a statistic are far greater than those of you that travel on commercial flights.
[HR][/HR][h=3]Buses[/h]0.5 deaths per billion miles – And that’s WITHOUT a bomb on board and Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock driving you to eventual safety!
[HR][/HR][h=3]Trains[/h]0.2 deaths per billion miles – This is the safest mode of transportation period. Around one rail passenger every other year finds themselves on the wrong end of the tracks believe it or not. Still blows my mind that this is safer than walking much less taking a ride in the Space Shuttle! Kinda makes sense when you consider a pedestrian going up against any of the modes of transportation mono-e-mono. We don’t stand a chance.


Read More: Out Of These Nine Modes, Which Is The Safest Way To Travel? | Out Of These Nine Modes, Which Is The Safest Way To Travel?

Out Of These Nine Modes, Which Is The Safest Way To Travel?

doublegg66

As with anything built by Man,It will fail and is prone to error.

gregf83 

What issues?

Roody

Some that I've viewed on news shows qnd the Internet included funding, profitability, practicality, safety, infrastructure concerns, mismanagement issues at Amtrak, and others.

Redhatter

My main frustration with the trains is when there's a hold-up or incident, and the staff run around like headless chooks.

Least that's how it works for Queensland Rail.

I have two of my hand-held radios set up with the frequency QR uses on their Ipswich line because they were so poor at telling us what was going on and when we'd be moving again. If the train stopped for a long period, I could listen in and find out, then share with the other passengers what was happening.

Those were the days when I used to commute from Brisbane to Laidley, so pretty much going as far west as possible on the regular commuter train network, and I remember there being a number of hold-ups for various reasons.

I now cycle everywhere and apart from catching a couple of ferries recently, have not used public transport in years. It's circumstance that permits this, if I were still working at Laidley, I'd still be hauling my bike on the train.

As for statistics, you know what they say.

gregf83 

I think the recent accident highlights how safe trains are as these events are rare. Not sure what it says about those other issues.

Marcus_Ti

It says what it says.

The latest crash seems to have been 100% preventable....but the people in charge of granting the funding needed to prevent it are too busy playing political football with cutting taxes (and therefore infrastructure spending) to get themselves re-elected to be bothered about the implications for citizens safety.

I'd draw a parallel to the Keystone XL pipeline project where everyone is too entrenched in their ideologies to note that all the pipeline accidents of the last 15 years investigated by the NTSB were found to not just be 100% preventable...but the companies operating the pipelines knew about the flaws that lead to the failures...and further knowing of flaws/decay refused to take any down time or spend any money to fix it. In short, pipeline companies knowingly continue to operate decayed infrastructure reported to be destined for failure (by their own people) and refuse to spend money to maintain it....and we the taxpayers end up paying the bill when our property is ruined by their gambling and not maintaining their hardware. The funny part being that by doing so they aren't violating the law. Instead of hearing about this part of the story all you hear is "job creators!".

Roody

One of the pundits on PBS said he was on a train that went around that same curve a couple hours before the crash. One of the windows in his car was suddenly broken, as if hit by an object. Now it turns out that there were reports that this train experienced something similar just before it crashed. I don't know if this means anything, but it seems kind of freaky.

Mobile 155

I have always preferred trains to Buses. And for most places I would rather ride a train than drive. That being said I may be spoiled because the on time record of Metro-Link, my favorite, and even Amtrak from Seattle to LA or San Diego has an on time that is reasonable. But for traveling west to east or up and down the eastern seaboard it is not my cup of tea. when planning a trip I have looked at the Cresent train and compared it to the Coast Starlight and discovered it would be a bad choice for making connecting flights or even trains if I were traveling down the eastern seaboard.

I have every admiration for trains in England, Germany and Japan, the only ones I have been on outside of the US. They are on time and can be trusted to get you to your connection when you need to be there. I will say rush hour in Tokyo can be uncomfortable for anyone used to some space between you and the next person.

Still looking at the train in question it is very unlikely funding had much to do with leaving the track be it because of driver error or accident or even sabotage.

Redhatter

Well, it's not like the train can leap out of the way. If they find the culprits though, they could face some very serious penalties depending on whether the investigation finds projectiles a deciding factor in the investigation.

A brick that lands on the rail for instance could derail a train.

Artkansas 

We need more passenger trains not fewer. I've traveled throughout Europe by train and seen how powerful, comfortable and convenient a well developed train network can be.

I've also traveled long distance on Amtrak, San Diego to Seattle. It was on time, though the accommodations left a bit to be desired. I've taken light rail in a number of areas including New York, Boston, Washington, San Jose, San Diego, L.A. and found it a good way to get around.

I've never ridden the rails in Arkansas, unless you count the tourist trolley in downtown Little Rock. A good light rail system would help unify an area within 60 miles of Little Rock.

Right now, Amtrak has one train a day in each direction through Little Rock. Northbound leaves at 11:30 pm, Southbound leaves at 3:10 am. To get to the nearest metropolitan area, Memphis, 140 miles away, will take you 30+ hours. That's right, you could bicycle to Memphis much faster than you could get there by train. The only major cities that it would be practical to travel by rail from here are Chicago, St. Louis, Dallas and San Antonio.

And I think that the Rails to Trails movement among bicyclists is completely wrong-headed.

Dave Cutter

Trains were an old technology before my grandfather was born. And I am old enough to remember the last steam locomotive to chug though town (there was a celebration and I rode down on my bicycle to watch the train pass by). All we can do to improve transportation technology.... is wait till all the old coots that can't image what change looks like to die off. Too many in our population are grounded in ancient technologies.

We need to stop thinking about people as if they are commodities that need to be shuffled about and delivered.

zonatandem

Have traveled by train, foot, ship, airplane and bicycle.
At age 82 I am still alive; let's face it why worry about some than that 'may' happen. We are all gonna die sometime.

Dave Cutter

Some people think that the railroads surrendered ownership of the rail lines that have been converted to bicycle paths. I know at least in some cases that isn't even close to true. The use of the paths are "lent" for use as bike paths... often in exchange for past and current taxes of the same land. In Ohio.... the Obama administration pushed to convert-back numerous bike paths to high-speed rail lines.

wolfchild

You have a much better chance of surviving a train wreck then a plane crash.

B. Carfree

There's reports that the earlier train that took a hit had the windshield in the engineer's compartment shattered and the engineer was in a stupor. If the same thing happened to the engineer of the train that derailed, then that would explain why the train wasn't slowed.

Tragic as it is for those involved, it's hard to get worked up over eight deaths. On our roadways, we often get more than that before the bars close and it never makes the news. Passenger train malfunctions are newsworthy because they are so rare. I will continue to happily take the train when it isn't convenient for me to ride my bike and the train gets me anywhere near my desired destination.

Machka 

I agree.

Rowan

It's the brick that goes through the driver's window that causes the most significant damage.

For some reason, public property has always been in some western countries -- the US, Australia and Britain -- a ready target for those who consider themselves dispossessed and want to "fight back" against society. The vandalism goes from grafitti to assaults to dropping bricks, rocks and concrete blocks off bridges on to or into trains and buses and even cars.

In places such as Hong Kong, you get caught, you go to jail for a long time. There is almost no grafitti anywhere there. It's almost like another world.

Rowan

This is ridiculous. You obviously have no clue as to the technology that is being employed in other parts of the world for ultra-high-speed train travel that is on a par or better than air travel. Try Europe. And Japan. And China. Even Britain has trains that run their services at 100+ miles per hour in perfect comfort and safety.

I suppose you're anxiously awaiting the fantasy of Star Trek to materialise?

Redhatter

Funny how people describe Australia as a "western" country when there's just us, NZ and a pile of tiny island nations before you hit the International date line. ;-)

But yes, there is the rebel element.

We could do that, but our jails are full enough as it is.

Machka 

Funny ... Rowan and I were just talking, and that is exactly the excuse we know everyone would come up with.

Redhatter

For what it's worth, Germany is facing a similar situation of its own.

Train crashes in western Germany, killing two and injuring 20, police say - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Apparently the trailer of a tractor grazed the side of the train as it roared past. Wrote off the trailer and made a mess of the train, along with killing two of its passengers and injuring over a dozen more.

Ekdog

I agree.

Marcus_Ti

Here in Nebraska we;ve been rails-to-trails-ing.

Well last week we had 2ft of rain in about 36 hours and flooding....and one of those converted trails (see: Jamaica North Trail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) was basically destroyed. It was only converted insofar as they put a bunch of dirt over the tracks/ties and then chipped limestone on top of it. Well, a bit of minor flooding and it is toast-the dirt was washed out and the left over railroad ties dislodged. City has no money to fix it and is applying to FEMA for $$$ to fix it. Course if they'd just spent the money to do it right in the first place (pave the damn thing) they wouldn't be screwed now.


On the topic of Amtrak...the one train that goes East-West through Nebraska here is the California Zephyr. By the time it gets here, it is reliably 4-6 hours late or more depending on the weather in the Rockies. Comfortable yes, but takes a long while to get anywhere and is never on-time and only comes through once per day.