newbe..what the big deal with the bikes with 29s
10-10-09, 07:50 PM
#26
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i'm just asking.
i've ridden them and i feel like i'm on a horse.
if i did alot of fire roads and non-technical stuff i'd definitely buy one.
i've ridden them and i feel like i'm on a horse.
if i did alot of fire roads and non-technical stuff i'd definitely buy one.
10-10-09, 07:51 PM
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Bike CG has raise because axles are higher and top of tires is higher as well...and supporting frame has to go with it.
I just bought and decided on a 26er. I personally think for the amateur, it doesn't matter much which bike you get as long as the bike fits. 26 wheels are stronger natively and lighter...another consideration. I personally like the look of the smaller wheels as well and I ride a big frame and a roadbike guy used to 700c wheels...small wheels spin up faster etc. I may own a 29er at some point...not dissing them...but there is no better...just a bit different. I like lighter and agile for a mountain bike.
I just bought and decided on a 26er. I personally think for the amateur, it doesn't matter much which bike you get as long as the bike fits. 26 wheels are stronger natively and lighter...another consideration. I personally like the look of the smaller wheels as well and I ride a big frame and a roadbike guy used to 700c wheels...small wheels spin up faster etc. I may own a 29er at some point...not dissing them...but there is no better...just a bit different. I like lighter and agile for a mountain bike.
Originally Posted by Campag4life
Further a 29er is a longer frame and many times heavier with equivalent frame materials
Originally Posted by NormanF
Its basically an MTB with fat 700C tires.
Then you'd be missing out. You just haven't ridden the right one for you. When I was looking, I rode a lot of bikes before I found the one that worked for me. And admittedly, many felt big, heavy and slow to me. But on the one I bought, I'm riding everything I do on my 26er FS with out any issues and even a bit faster (not sure I'll chock that up to the 9er yet; it might be the excitement of a new bike or the face that it's a HT. Time will tell.) I'm trying to think of terrain I've ridden that I couldn't do on the 9er. I've ridden in New England, Florida, TX, WA, CO, UT (inc. Moab) and there's really not anyplace I can think of I couldn't ride the 9er. That doesn't mean there aren't places I'll ultimately prefer a FS bike... but whether it's a 9er or 6er is still up in the air.
Last edited by skiahh; 10-10-09 at 07:59 PM.
10-11-09, 05:57 AM
#28
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Recent tests have shown that unless you're at the stratospheric level of, say a Lance, the acceleration difference is negligible. Having believed that myth for a while, I was very pleasantly surprised to find that I accelerate as fast on my 9er as I do on my 6er.
Incorrect. Slightly heavier, yes. MANY TIMES?? No. When you make statements like this, you lose credibility.
Well, I guess at the most generic level, that's a true statement. But in reality, it's not just a frame with bigger tires slapped on. The good ones are designed and optimized to take advantage of the larger wheels. So your statement is basically inaccurate.
Then you'd be missing out. You just haven't ridden the right one for you. When I was looking, I rode a lot of bikes before I found the one that worked for me. And admittedly, many felt big, heavy and slow to me. But on the one I bought, I'm riding everything I do on my 26er FS with out any issues and even a bit faster (not sure I'll chock that up to the 9er yet; it might be the excitement of a new bike or the face that it's a HT. Time will tell.) I'm trying to think of terrain I've ridden that I couldn't do on the 9er. I've ridden in New England, Florida, TX, WA, CO, UT (inc. Moab) and there's really not anyplace I can think of I couldn't ride the 9er. That doesn't mean there aren't places I'll ultimately prefer a FS bike... but whether it's a 9er or 6er is still up in the air.
Incorrect. Slightly heavier, yes. MANY TIMES?? No. When you make statements like this, you lose credibility.
Well, I guess at the most generic level, that's a true statement. But in reality, it's not just a frame with bigger tires slapped on. The good ones are designed and optimized to take advantage of the larger wheels. So your statement is basically inaccurate.
Then you'd be missing out. You just haven't ridden the right one for you. When I was looking, I rode a lot of bikes before I found the one that worked for me. And admittedly, many felt big, heavy and slow to me. But on the one I bought, I'm riding everything I do on my 26er FS with out any issues and even a bit faster (not sure I'll chock that up to the 9er yet; it might be the excitement of a new bike or the face that it's a HT. Time will tell.) I'm trying to think of terrain I've ridden that I couldn't do on the 9er. I've ridden in New England, Florida, TX, WA, CO, UT (inc. Moab) and there's really not anyplace I can think of I couldn't ride the 9er. That doesn't mean there aren't places I'll ultimately prefer a FS bike... but whether it's a 9er or 6er is still up in the air.
Second, the term many times meant...often times. This means that in general for the same size rider frame to frame, 9er frames are heavier...fact.
Third...point of discussion was CG. 9er frames are taller. Fact. With same BB height as a 6er, a 9er has a higher CG and in general more tippy at lower speeds in particular when the angular momentum of the taller and heavier wheels isn't in effect.
Do 29ers have a following? Of course. Does it matter on an amateur level? Not much. Ride what you like but there is no refuting physics. Most heavier bikes will be slower than a lighter bike with the same tire width when climbing which is in part what you do on a mountain bike.
10-11-09, 07:07 AM
#29
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Sweet! I get to trot this thread out again. Try them both, ride whichever bike you prefer. Have one (or more!) of each. I tried the 29er thing and disliked it for me.
https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=491856
The BB height, and center of gravity of 26 vs. 29 can be the same, or they can not be. Some of each can be higher and lower. You can have a bike built with a higher or lower of both in either wheel size. There are way too many factors to make bald statements about such things.
Open statement to those on both sides of the fence:
Both wheel sizes have things they do better than others, and that all depends on what and how you ride, and what your preferences are. To state that either size is better overall for every rider is just asinine, and makes said statement maker look, well, dumb.
Now, if I had endless money to toss at the experiment: Burly hardtail with about a 68* head angle, 22.5" TT dropped super low for clearance, 15" ST. lNice stiff wheels with a 12mm travel thru-axle fork, Hammerschmidt up front, to not have to worry about front mech clearance, in order to get the rear stays as short as possible. Running my normal 6-7 cogs in back, short cage rear. Gravity dropper post. some of the new crop of DH capable 29er tires. That's not too far from what I experimented with though, and seeing how much I disliked it, I'm not going to shell out any more dough to try it out.
https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=491856
The BB height, and center of gravity of 26 vs. 29 can be the same, or they can not be. Some of each can be higher and lower. You can have a bike built with a higher or lower of both in either wheel size. There are way too many factors to make bald statements about such things.
Open statement to those on both sides of the fence:
Both wheel sizes have things they do better than others, and that all depends on what and how you ride, and what your preferences are. To state that either size is better overall for every rider is just asinine, and makes said statement maker look, well, dumb.
Now, if I had endless money to toss at the experiment: Burly hardtail with about a 68* head angle, 22.5" TT dropped super low for clearance, 15" ST. lNice stiff wheels with a 12mm travel thru-axle fork, Hammerschmidt up front, to not have to worry about front mech clearance, in order to get the rear stays as short as possible. Running my normal 6-7 cogs in back, short cage rear. Gravity dropper post. some of the new crop of DH capable 29er tires. That's not too far from what I experimented with though, and seeing how much I disliked it, I'm not going to shell out any more dough to try it out.
Last edited by scrublover; 10-11-09 at 07:12 AM.
10-11-09, 09:02 AM
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10-11-09, 10:12 AM
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I think we're on the same page, Scrub. I've demoed a 29er and found the very same things you did. For every "advantage" the 29" wheels had, there was a very real and tangible disadvantage. You just cant cheat physics. I also agree that there's no way in hell I'm going to alter my riding style to suit the bike.
thats what 29ers seem like to me.
10-11-09, 10:22 AM
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I think we're on the same page, Scrub. I've demoed a 29er and found the very same things you did. For every "advantage" the 29" wheels had, there was a very real and tangible disadvantage. You just cant cheat physics. I also agree that there's no way in hell I'm going to alter my riding style to suit the bike.
Now granted, you pick a new bike on your changing riding style and ability, but you absolutely alter your riding style to suit the bike.
Not sure what makes you think you'd have to drastically alter your riding style on a 9er?
Have you actually tried one that seems to suit you, on trails you're familiar with? Or are you just going on rumor and supposition?
Originally Posted by thehappyrobot
"a solution to a problem that never existed."
thats what 29ers seem like to me.
thats what 29ers seem like to me.
Innovation isn't necessarily a solution to a problem that exists... and quite often opens vast new capabilities and possibilities if you get your head out of the sand.
Last edited by skiahh; 10-11-09 at 10:26 AM.
10-11-09, 10:33 AM
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Although, they say necessity is the Mother Of Invention.
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10-11-09, 11:48 AM
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Hmmm.... whether you will admit this or not, you've done this with every bike you've ever ridden.
Now granted, you pick a new bike on your changing riding style and ability, but you absolutely alter your riding style to suit the bike.
Not sure what makes you think you'd have to drastically alter your riding style on a 9er?
Have you actually tried one that seems to suit you, on trails you're familiar with? Or are you just going on rumor and supposition?
Now granted, you pick a new bike on your changing riding style and ability, but you absolutely alter your riding style to suit the bike.
Not sure what makes you think you'd have to drastically alter your riding style on a 9er?
Have you actually tried one that seems to suit you, on trails you're familiar with? Or are you just going on rumor and supposition?
I can only hope ten years from now the typical MTB will have 25" wheels and a minimum of 10" of highly adjustable travel front and rear.
10-11-09, 12:44 PM
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The demo was on an eight mile loop I've ridden regularly on my 26" wheeled bike for the past ten years or so. I've been riding MTBs for the past 20 years, and BMX bikes for eight years before that, so I'm very sure I know what I like. Increasing rotational inertia and unsprung weight isn't the way. The designers of the fastest off-road two wheeled vehicles on earth discovered this some time ago:
I can only hope ten years from now the typical MTB will have 25" wheels and a minimum of 10" of highly adjustable travel front and rear.
I can only hope ten years from now the typical MTB will have 25" wheels and a minimum of 10" of highly adjustable travel front and rear.
10-11-09, 01:06 PM
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10 inches of travel... interesting. I guess that's a DH desire? I don't see how huge travel would help my mountain riding with the speeds I achieve on a mountain bike. I would guess a motorcycle would have more travel because it has more weight, travels at faster rates and therefore encounters larger obstacles?
10-11-09, 01:06 PM
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Do you use the same tactic with the lesbians you meet? Example: "You just haven't met the right man yet?"
10-11-09, 02:39 PM
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I'm going to guess that you are not tall. For me, 29ers provided a solution to some problems that I had with every 26 in wheeled bike I ever owned or rode. I always had a problem keeping the front wheel on the ground on a steep climb. I also had an "I'm about to endo" feel on many descents. When I switched to a 29er these ceased to be problems for me. The 29ers I ride now simply fit me better than the 26 in wheeled ones did. I can climb better and longer and I'm enjoying mountain biking more than I ever did before I rode one.
If I was under 6 feet tall, like most of my riding friends, I'm sure that I wouldn't have had these issues and I'd be riding a nice 26 inch wheeled bike today.
10-11-09, 05:42 PM
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Damn, Skiahh doesn't even ride mountain bikes regularly that I know of nor has she frequented this forum much in the past. But I gotta say she shows more intellect than most of the posters or Posuers in this thread.
It simple science, "for every action, there is an equal and oppisite reaction"
I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's a trade off!
You have to decide for yourself what's right for you, just don't tell me what's right for me, OK?
It simple science, "for every action, there is an equal and oppisite reaction"
I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's a trade off!
You have to decide for yourself what's right for you, just don't tell me what's right for me, OK?
10-11-09, 06:02 PM
#44
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10-11-09, 07:40 PM
#45
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Damn, Skiahh doesn't even ride mountain bikes regularly that I know of nor has she frequented this forum much in the past. But I gotta say she shows more intellect than most of the posters or Posuers in this thread.
It simple science, "for every action, there is an equal and oppisite reaction"
I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's a trade off!
You have to decide for yourself what's right for you, just don't tell me what's right for me, OK?
It simple science, "for every action, there is an equal and oppisite reaction"
I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's a trade off!
You have to decide for yourself what's right for you, just don't tell me what's right for me, OK?
Originally Posted by Svr
Do you use the same tactic with the lesbians you meet? Example: "You just haven't met the right man yet?"
10-11-09, 09:01 PM
#47
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I Don''t race, don't huck, damn sure don't boast,. ( cause I got nothing to boast about) but you seem to show a vivid interest in the MTB sub forum lately. Welcome
10-11-09, 09:44 PM
#48
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Sorry for the confusion, A name like Skiah,,,,,, well let's just move on, You don't hang out here cause you don't mountain bike regularly right?
I Don''t race, don't huck, damn sure don't boast,. ( cause I got nothing to boast about) but you seem to show a vivid interest in the MTB sub forum lately. Welcome
I Don''t race, don't huck, damn sure don't boast,. ( cause I got nothing to boast about) but you seem to show a vivid interest in the MTB sub forum lately. Welcome
I don't hang out here because of the quality of the posts in general. I moved to Foo because, well, may as well call it what it is. I used to, went to Foo... and guess I just have to remind myself from time to time why I don't hang out in here.