no_ster

I was on the market for a new road bike and the shop that I can get good discounts at is Trek exclusive. The Emonda SL6 Pro was the bike I was initially looking at, but I noticed that the Boone RSL is the same price and only weighs about 1 lb more. I have always loved CX bikes, in my opinion they're super fun to ride on dirt and I love to see roadies get mad when I pass them on one. When looking closely at the spec of the Boone, I noticed that the ultra-light Bont. Paradigm wheels are road specific wheels, which was somewhat surprising to me. Indeed Sven Nys rides with carbon road wheels on his CX bike, but to me they seem too fragile to be ridden off road on bumpy dirt-roads and trails for the amateur rider who has to pay for their wheels when they bend or crack.

If I were to buy the Boone I would probably get another set of wheels so I could have one set for CX and one for pavement. Considering the Boone's stock wheels are for road, I would probably get another stronger set for trails. What do you think of this? I have bent XC mountain bike wheels in ruts and rolling over bumps, so I would not trust road wheels over similar terrain. Considering the Boone's Paradigm wheels weight basically as much as the Emonda SL6 Pro's Vision Metron M40 carbon wheels, why does the Boone weigh a pound more anyway? Is there a pound more carbon in the frame set? They have basically the same components.

redlude97

not sure where you got the idea the paradigms are road specific, just because they have road in the name. They are fine for cross and even come spec'd with cross tires. Just buy a disc boone if that is what you want, no reason to go canti anymore IMO.

no_ster

What makes me think that is that they weigh as much as road specific wheels of the same material (which suggests similar strength) but you're correct that my conclusion is not scientific. The Boone with discs either comes with a 1x drivetrain which isn't ideal for road biking or it weighs like 3 pounds more. This bike would be an all-around bike for me, the cantilever brakes are nice and lightweight even if they sacrifice a bit of stopping power. I would rather my cross-wheels to be a little closer to light XC mtb wheels than to road wheels, you may have your own opinion, but having broken XC mtb wheels, I would rather have wheels that I could really trust over having super lightweight wheels. Also non-disc wheels in my opinion should be even stronger because if they become not-true even the slightest bit, it can really mess up your braking.

Chandne

Depends on the build. Mountain bikers (using 29ers) have been using road rims on trails for years. Usually it is a 32x32 or maybe a 28x32 build but they do just fine. A handbuilt set of wheels will hold up quite well. A 450-500 gram rim should easily hold up for cross and trail riding. I used older ~440 gram Arch 29er rims for 2 years of hard trail riding before they became too soft and that is a soft rim to begin with. I do only use handbuilt wheelsets.

redfooj

certainly some road wheels built at the extremes are made for light weight (sorry, LIGHTWEIGHT) in favor of durability , but by and large there are overlap in suitability of "road" wheels in cyclocross applications ---- i.e. works well with wider tires, are durable, etc.

its not really about road vs cx wheels its more about rim vs disc brake wheels as there are engineering considerations specific to each type in terms of hub, lacing, etc

fietsbob

TRaditionally roadies did Cyclocross when the weather turned nasty, they got off the roads, but kept competing to keep fitness level.

tires still glued on sew-ups. (even now, the benefits are there, run Lower PSI without pinch flats (or burping all the air out)



now they just go road race in Australia during northern winters , and Cyclo cross has its own specialists.




...

superdex

btw, an out-of-true disc wheel doesn't affect the disc. Unless the disc is bent, in which case you're out downhilling, in which case you bought the wrong bike.

you're overthinking it, the wheels are just fine.

WhyFi

I have one set of wheels for road and one set for (primarily) pavement, but it has nothing to do with strength/durability concerns - I just want to be able to swap between knobbies and slicks quickly and easily.

msu2001la

Most people at my local CX series are running road wheels. The top choice seems to be Zipp 303 tubulars, but I see a lot of HED Ardennes and others. The only real CX-specific wheelset I see a lot of is Psimet, which has a wider carbon wheelset designed specifically for holding CX tubular tires better to the (glued) rim.

I personally use Psimet A100 tubular road wheels for CX racing, and use Shimano Ultegra 6800's with CX tires for training, race-day backup and fall/winter riding. The rest of the time I run 25mm road tires on the Ultegras. Both sets have held up fine.

I think MTB wheels likely take a lot more abuse than CX. For starters, the suspension travel of MTB bikes means you're more likely to bomb over ruts, rocks and roots at speed which potentially would damage wheels. You can't really do that on a rigid CX bike. Most CX courses are a combination of grass, sand, mud and gravel and anything more technical means you're hopping off and shouldering the bike. The wheel damage I see at CX races is usually the result of crashes or hitting barriers while trying to bunny hop, and I'm sure this type of thing would damage MTB or CX-specific wheels as well.

For the most part, I think the stresses on a wheel with a 23-25mm tire at 100psi hitting bumps and potholes at 25mph is going to be the same or worse than you'd find with a 33mm CX tire at 25psi riding in grass, sand, mud, gravel, etc at 10-15mph.

So, yeah... in short, I wouldn't worry about the Bontrager wheels being too fragile unless you're riding a lot of rough singletrack. As others have said, having two wheelsets is nice just so you don't have to swap tires.

no_ster

That's basically what I said, if the disc wheel goes out-of-true it's not as big of a deal as it is for a bike with canti's.

no_ster

So maybe a CX bike isn't for me. msu2001la, if you bomb over roots and rocks on a mountain bike, your suspension will take the load off the wheels, for a CX bike, I'd imagine its wheels wouldn't take half the beating as a full suspension mtb. Indeed CX courses aren't as technical as XC mtb courses, but for CX training I could imagine finding myself on trails that are too rough for road wheels.

12strings

I recently bought Fulcrum Racing LG CX. The "CX" version is for cyclocross. The only difference is a double seal for the hubs for better foul weather resistance.

Strength is the same as the non-CX version.

NormanF

You can get a gravel road bike and have a bike that you can ride anywhere.

You don't need two separate bikes for the trail and the road.

Something to consider if you think you want to go-off road in the future besides chewing up the tarmac.

Psimet2001 

Thanks for the mention. If I spend too much time digging through the details of this thread and addressing them I'll get called out for advertising. To address what I believe is the base issue - no....what is good on road isn't good in cyclocross. Too many sacrifices. Downsides? The number of people with broken wheels designed for road that I have to fix up each week between races.

You don't bring a knife to a gun fight. don't bring a road bike to a cross race....road wheels...same thing....in this day and age. It didn't used to be that way.

Many years ago we were truly the only real builder wheel brand involved in the cross scene enough to dedicate designs and molds to it. There is some other "me-too" product out there now but usually built with a roadie influence and just not as strong. As a result we are about 65%-70% cyclocross now. When you spend every week from August to Feb in the trenches fixing stuff that breaks you learn a lot. Bontrager isn't spending that time in any pit with anyone. Neither is Zipp....or Reynolds....etc...

Just FWIW.

Psimet2001 

Some are more technical and the lack of capability of the CX equipment makes it more interesting and is at the core of the sport.

Most boring thing in the world to watch is a fully geeked out mtb thrash through a cross course.... *yawn* because anyone's grandmother could ride that.

The saying in cross is "Every lap there are 100 things to remember/do. On your best day in your best race you'll get about 50% of them right."

Remember back at the turn of the century when mtb racers started getting ticked off because their courses were so non-technical and non-challenging that racers started showing up and racing them on cross bikes and winning?

GlennR

I have a Cannondale SuperX CX bike that is dual purpose. The stock wheels have 38mm knobby and I purchased a set of Zipp 30 Course and run 32mm tubeless road tires. I also went with Sram 1x and have put many road miles and a number of group rides.

I have Zipp 303 on my road bike and see them used on CX race bikes.

f4rrest

I'd be interested to hear more about what makes a wheel better for cross or rutted, rocky, steep fire roads.

I've just put 30mm kenda Kwicks on old, heavy 32 spoke Alex rims to ride my allez on the local fire roads in the hills, but I suspect they may not be ideal. Rim brakes too.

What should I look for in a better wheel for this type of riding?

Psimet2001 

You may not realize it but that's a bit of a loaded question....

Cyclocross is a specific discipline. It's strictly a form of racing that occurs during fall and winter and is an alternate for road. It's why it's on the road license for USA Cycling.

As such cyclocross by it's nature = racing. In that vein "Heavy Alex 32 spoke" clincher rims with rim brakes aren't going to be in the lineup. To race cross means to run tubulars. Period. Even high end tubeless is considered what you do if you can't afford to run tubular.

Outside of that it's not a cyclocross discussion. It's a "Gravel/Groad/Adventure/Mtb" discussion. Better wheel applications fall along those lines - 27.5 with larger tires to bring you back up to 29/700....disc brakes....etc. Tires wider than 33mm. Wider rim bases for better tire conforming and compliance. Follow the mtb guys.

f4rrest

I'm stuck with what fits on the current bike, which has calipers and just barely accomodates the 30mm kenda Kwicks.

It will not be CX raced, but will be used on steep, dry fire roads. I'm not buying a different bike.

Are typical road wheels appropriate? I thought not, given your comment about seeing so many broken CX wheels. Am I misunderstanding?

redlude97

i think a big difference between gravel/adventure riding and cross is that i never plan on crashing while on gravel/dirt, but crashing in a CX race is inevitable

Error

hm ... and how about to turn this discussion on other side, i have option to buy MICHE SWR Full carbon wheels (they say it is CX wheelset), can i put on them road tyres ?, any problem with that ?

RPK79

If my wheels aren't durable to be ridden off road a little I sure as hell don't want to be riding them on the road.

gsa103

Your road wheels are appropriate because they're what fits. You can't get something more appropriate without buying a new bike. If it works, it works, if it doesn't, you can get a custom wheelset or a new bike.

CX racing is in a weird place. Tubular tires are required due to the low pressures. Clinchers are virtually guaranteed to pinch flat and tubeless doesn't work because of the low volume tires. Tubeless CX tires are very prone "burping" and having the beads un-seat due to the combination of low-volume and very low pressure. Mountain bikes run similar pressures in tires with 2-3x the volume. Road tubeless works because of the higher pressures and reduced sideloads.

Mountain bike wheels would be great for CX, except the MTB community have moved almost exclusively to tubeless. That means there are basically two sources for tubular wheels, road wheels or custom wheels like psimet. Custom wheels are certainly superior, but there's a reliable supply of used road tubulars, so it's not surprising to see them used and abused. Especially since many CX racers also race road bikes, so last seasons road wheels become this season's CX wheels.