Spoke washers?
#26
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,863
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1853 Post(s)
Liked 659 Times
in
502 Posts
#27
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,863
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1853 Post(s)
Liked 659 Times
in
502 Posts
I'm with you on the aesthetics! Gonna have to think about the mungy finish on the spokes! The hubs are pretty clean and the rims can use a cleaning - shinyness!
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,748
Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .........Miyata 912........... ........................................
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 702 Post(s)
Liked 671 Times
in
419 Posts
Nipple washers should be of a material that will not corrode or deform. Corrosion and/or deformation will increase friction when truing.
EDIT: thinking about what I just wrote, maybe friction between nipple and washer will help to keep the nipples from rotating while riding thus keeping the wheel true...
Last edited by branko_76; 06-29-20 at 08:20 AM.
#29
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,863
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1853 Post(s)
Liked 659 Times
in
502 Posts
"shiny" generally means smooth, which is prefereable when truing a wheel. A dull washer will have more friction. That said, brass is not a good material anyway for nipple washers because it is too soft. The nipples, when tensioned will bite down on the brass causing friction.
Nipple washers should be of a material that will not corrode or deform. Corrosion and/or deformation will increase friction when truing.
EDIT: thinking about what I just wrote, maybe friction between nipple and washer will help to keep the nipples from rotating while riding thus keeping the wheel true...
Nipple washers should be of a material that will not corrode or deform. Corrosion and/or deformation will increase friction when truing.
EDIT: thinking about what I just wrote, maybe friction between nipple and washer will help to keep the nipples from rotating while riding thus keeping the wheel true...
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2,811
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1105 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,324 Times
in
781 Posts
"shiny" generally means smooth, which is prefereable when truing a wheel. A dull washer will have more friction. That said, brass is not a good material anyway for nipple washers because it is too soft. The nipples, when tensioned will bite down on the brass causing friction.
Nipple washers should be of a material that will not corrode or deform. Corrosion and/or deformation will increase friction when truing.
EDIT: thinking about what I just wrote, maybe friction between nipple and washer will help to keep the nipples from rotating while riding thus keeping the wheel true...
Nipple washers should be of a material that will not corrode or deform. Corrosion and/or deformation will increase friction when truing.
EDIT: thinking about what I just wrote, maybe friction between nipple and washer will help to keep the nipples from rotating while riding thus keeping the wheel true...
a) surface reflectivity *is* a function of rms smoothness, but the difference between a brass washer that as it comes in the package and after it has been annealed is either zero or so close that it does not matter. Remember you are talking an oxide layer that might only be the thickness of the wavelengths of visible light. Any effect on friction is likely to be
1. small; and
2. gone as soon as the oxide layer is wiped away; a single turn of the nipple should do.
b) brass is not a single alloy but a group of them, and so it can have widely varying properties. Its uts can vary by roughly a factor of 3, for example, at the high end surpassing that of some aluminium alloys. You may have only seen/noticed brass in the softer states, but regardless, for the reasons given below, softer is better.
c) if brass is not a good materiel for washers for the reasons suggested then it's not a good materiel for nipples or eyelets either. This obviously is not true.
d) nipples washers that do not deform may, as posted above by another, INCREASE the point stress on the rim. This is a bad thing. There are two ways a washer reduces spoke-hole cracking:
1. it moves the stress away from the hole - cracks begin at the hole; and
2. it reduces the point stress by spreading it over a wider area. A washer that deforms to fit the rim does this best. I anneal spoke washers before use for exactly this reason.
e) the way to keep nipples from loosening to to built the wheel properly. When the spokes are tensioned sufficiently they will not (absent injury) loosen, despite being built with oiled spoke threads, nipples, and rim seats. (There is a book that explains all this; worth getting a copy; but you'll have to be quick if it's via these forums, copies usually sell in a day, sometimes in minutes.)
A last note - for anyone who (as I do) uses washers. They are almost always stamped from sheet. As such they will have one edge rounded and one edge sharpish. Before building I put them sharp edge down on a sheet of emery paper and give them 15 seconds with my thumb to remove any raised edge on the sharp side.
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Posts: 11,674
Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1372 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,747 Times
in
937 Posts
Clarify "torch" - I'm not a welder or a frame builder. I'm pretty decent at soldering for cabling and electronics (certified by NASA decades ago), and I own an ancient Craftsman propane torch with those gas bottles. That was for installing motorcycle wheel bearings. No oxy, acetylene, et cetera.
I'm with you on the aesthetics! Gonna have to think about the mungy finish on the spokes! The hubs are pretty clean and the rims can use a cleaning - shinyness!
I'm with you on the aesthetics! Gonna have to think about the mungy finish on the spokes! The hubs are pretty clean and the rims can use a cleaning - shinyness!
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,748
Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .........Miyata 912........... ........................................
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 702 Post(s)
Liked 671 Times
in
419 Posts