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Aluminum: are there any fans left?

Old 06-13-20, 05:31 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by sjanzeir View Post
$2,000 still is a lot of money to a lot of people.
I totally agree but spending $750 for something you wonít enjoy or wonít last is not a smart buy.

A bike is a major purchase you save for and take care of and use for years.

Going too cheap can be expensive in the long run.
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Old 06-13-20, 05:45 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
I totally agree but spending $750 for something you wonít enjoy or wonít last is not a smart buy.

A bike is a major purchase you save for and take care of and use for years.

Going too cheap can be expensive in the long run.
$750 will get you what, Claris? Possibly Sora if the planets happen to line up? It's very possible to be able to do Tiagra around the $1,000-1,050 mark or, if God happens to be riding His Devine Titania Disc 3 Di2 that day, maybe even 105 for under $1,100 on a deal. That's still plenty of money saved on what may very well be an excellent alloy frame vis a vis carbon fiber. Not a whole lot of disappointment to be had there.
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Old 06-13-20, 05:49 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
That's exactly how I feel about the 15 hours I rode over the last 4 days, with the exception that I rode my off-the-rack aluminum bikes: a road bike for three of those days and a track bike for the other.
So in other words, you didnít do what I described. Got it.
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Old 06-13-20, 09:16 PM
  #104  
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Iím fine with Al for a full suspension MTB frame.

I probably would have liked it fine for my fat bike, but I got steel.
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Old 06-13-20, 09:38 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
Aluminum bikes are pointless now for serious road biking. A bike as good as a Pinarello Gan goes for just under 2 grand without Whatdisk brakes.
What do you mean by “serious road biking”? For racing, they may be pointless but 99.9% of riders never race. My definition of a “serious” road ride is likely different from yours as well as from what other’s would consider a “serious” ride. But I fairly certain I’ve been on a few and many of them have been on aluminum bikes. A Jamis Ventura is about the cheapest good road bike out there and it could certainly do a “serious” road ride in most peoples’ view. And, at 23 lbs, it’s only 5 lbs heavier than than that Pinarello. Are those 5 pounds worth $280 per pound?

Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
I totally agree but spending $750 for something you won’t enjoy or won’t last is not a smart buy.

A bike is a major purchase you save for and take care of and use for years.

Going too cheap can be expensive in the long run.
Most people are going to be happy and enjoy what they buy. I’ve owned and ridden a bunch of inexpensive bikes. I enjoyed them and never found them to be fragile nor unfixable. I’m not suggesting people go out and buy $100 bikes from HelMart. That’s not going to last. But a higher quality bike like the Ventura above is going to provide miles and years of enjoyment.

I believe that it is better to get people on a bike...even a HelMart bike if they can’t afford anything else...than for them to save up $2000 before they start to enjoy riding.
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Old 06-13-20, 11:39 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
I totally agree but spending $750 for something you wonít enjoy or wonít last is not a smart buy.

A bike is a major purchase you save for and take care of and use for years.

Going too cheap can be expensive in the long run.
Lower satisfaction with a less expensive aluminum bike could certainly be argued, but I would have to disagree that it wouldn't last simply because it is less expensive and aluminum. I wouldn't be surprised if competently designed and manufactured it could quite possibly outlast an expensive carbon frame. Again, wether it is of sufficient quality/performance to satisfy the needs and experience of the rider would depend on the rider themselves.
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Old 06-14-20, 12:17 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
Aluminum bikes are pointless now for serious road biking. A bike as good as a Pinarello Gan goes for just under 2 grand without disk brakes.
Define "serious".

My wife enjoys her aluminum road bike just fine. We do 50+ mile rides, which I do believe would put us well into the 99.9 percentile of folks who ride bikes. It was a steal of a deal, albeit being a closeout end of year sale type thing, but I don't think $1300-1400 more for a $2000 bike would make her any happier.
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Old 06-14-20, 05:26 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Sandstrom View Post
Lower satisfaction with a less expensive aluminum bike could certainly be argued, but I would have to disagree that it wouldn't last simply because it is less expensive and aluminum. I wouldn't be surprised if competently designed and manufactured it could quite possibly outlast an expensive carbon frame. Again, wether it is of sufficient quality/performance to satisfy the needs and experience of the rider would depend on the rider themselves.
The frame may last but the components on cheap bikes donít. That is why IMO they arenít worth it. Resale is another.

My main bike is a Serotta Colorado that cost $5700 fully built 12 years ago. It is all around Campy Chorus. I have been offered $4000 for it. Now the Colorado is a highly coveted steel bike but in 5 years that Pinarello will still be worth $1500.
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Old 06-14-20, 05:46 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
The frame may last but the components on cheap bikes donít. That is why IMO they arenít worth it. Resale is another.

My main bike is a Serotta Colorado that cost $5700 fully built 12 years ago. It is all around Campy Chorus. I have been offered $4000 for it. Now the Colorado is a highly coveted steel bike but in 5 years that Pinarello will still be worth $1500.
What cheap components have you worn out? If you buy an $800 bike, use it for 3 years and sell it for $300, you have lost $500. If you buy a $3000 Carbon bike, use it for 3 years and sell it for $1000, you've lost $2000.
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Old 06-14-20, 05:57 AM
  #110  
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I never really thought about it but 3 of my 4 bikes are AL. My Masi is 15 years old and has CF fork and stays. It's all Dura Ace and was a birthday gift from my GF. My Colnago CX is also AL with 105. I guess I am an AL fan 'cause I love all of these bikes.


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Old 06-14-20, 05:58 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
What cheap components have you worn out? If you buy an $800 bike, use it for 3 years and sell it for $300, you have lost $500. If you buy a $3000 Carbon bike, use it for 3 years and sell it for $1000, you've lost $2000.
I have had a bike with Claris and currently have one with Ultegra, have never have had a bit of trouble with either's components and see no evidence that either is built in such a way that it will significantly outlast the other. Certainly resale of higher end frames and components will be higher but as Paul says there is no guarantee of gaining a significantly larger portion of your investment back.
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Old 06-14-20, 05:58 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
The frame may last but the components on cheap bikes donít. That is why IMO they arenít worth it.
I'm pretty sure that most Tourney components will last for years and years underneath countless "serious" riders...
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Old 06-14-20, 07:22 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
The frame may last but the components on cheap bikes donít. That is why IMO they arenít worth it. Resale is another.

My main bike is a Serotta Colorado that cost $5700 fully built 12 years ago. It is all around Campy Chorus. I have been offered $4000 for it. Now the Colorado is a highly coveted steel bike but in 5 years that Pinarello will still be worth $1500.
12 year old $5,700 bike going for $4,000?

No. Sorry, but.... no. No how, no way. Unless the offer came from a Nigerian Prince. Then I can believe it.
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Old 06-14-20, 08:29 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
The frame may last but the components on cheap bikes donít. That is why IMO they arenít worth it. Resale is another.

My main bike is a Serotta Colorado that cost $5700 fully built 12 years ago. It is all around Campy Chorus. I have been offered $4000 for it. Now the Colorado is a highly coveted steel bike but in 5 years that Pinarello will still be worth $1500.
How many seasons do components have to last to be cost effective? The Claris on the Jamis Ventura will last at least 10 years. I see Exage, Acera and STX parts at my local co-op that have been taken off bikes we have deemed unroad worthy. Those are groups (Exage and STX) are from the early 1990s and the reason I "see" them is because they have life left in them. I expect that someone in the 2050s will be taking Claris parts off bikes and marveling that they are still serviceable.

As for "resale", do you really think people buy $800 bikes and think about how much they can sell them for in 5, 10 or 20 years? I don't consider the resale value on any of my bikes and I have bikes with frames that cost more than an entire $800 bike. I keep detailed records of the components on my bicycles but I started that out of curiosity. After a few thefts (but very few), the record of my components has come in handy for insurance purposes.

Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
What cheap components have you worn out? If you buy an $800 bike, use it for 3 years and sell it for $300, you have lost $500. If you buy a $3000 Carbon bike, use it for 3 years and sell it for $1000, you've lost $2000.
Yup.

Originally Posted by sjanzeir View Post
I'm pretty sure that most Tourney components will last for years and years underneath countless "serious" riders...
I wouldn't say that about Tourney parts...they are really horrible and the ones you find on HelMart bikes are bad out of the box. But for Claris level, the components are rather nice. I'd put them at the 105 level from 20 years ago. They aren't the highest end parts but they work well enough on a entry level bike.
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Old 06-14-20, 09:09 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I wouldn't say that about Tourney parts...they are really horrible and the ones you find on HelMart bikes are bad out of the box. But for Claris level, the components are rather nice. I'd put them at the 105 level from 20 years ago. They aren't the highest end parts but they work well enough on a entry level bike.
Horrible they definitely are - I'd had a few bikes with Tourney - a Dahon, a Trek, and a big-box Kent Shogun Terra from Toys"R"Us that had been rebranded as a Jeep - and they sucked a$$, in that the derailleurs needed adjustment almost every week from new and that their shift quality felt about as nice as driving a Wartburg.

But the argument wasn't about how Tourney components feel or look or sound. The argument was about whether or not they would last - as in continue to function at all, let alone function as they should - for multiple years in the hands of the average rider. I did need to adjust my Tourneys often, but I still went places on those bikes.

As cyccommute said, if the choice was between getting my butt around on some El Cheapo Tourney-equipped starter now and saving up for a Dura-Ace topper for months or years and not riding at all in the interim, I'll take the 40lb boat anchor now and worry about the featherweight Gemstone Unobtainium SLR6 Di2 later.

With that being said, I still wouldn't pay any money anything that has the Tourney with the red jockey wheel.

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Old 06-14-20, 09:17 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by sjanzeir View Post
Horrible they definitely are - I'd had a few bikes with Tourney - a Dahon, a Trek, and a big-box Kent Shogun Terra from Toys"R"Us that was rebranded as a Jeep - and they sucked a$$, in that the derailleurs needed adjustment almost every week from new and that their shift quality felt about as nice as driving a Wartburg.
Based on what I've seen at my local co-op, I would say there are actually 2 levels of Tourney. Some of the entry level bike shop bikes are coming with Tourney and those seem to be of a much better quality than the Tourney that is being used on the HelMart bikes. The ones on the HelMart bikes are extremely floppy. They have loose pivot points on the derailer so they just won't shift properly. The ones on the better bikes are more solid. If we are talking the HelMart Tourney, I'd say they won't last the assembly process. The ones on higher quality bikes are probably going to be okay for a couple of years, at least.
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Old 06-14-20, 09:33 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Based on what I've seen at my local co-op, I would say there are actually 2 levels of Tourney. Some of the entry level bike shop bikes are coming with Tourney and those seem to be of a much better quality than the Tourney that is being used on the HelMart bikes. The ones on the HelMart bikes are extremely floppy. They have loose pivot points on the derailer so they just won't shift properly. The ones on the better bikes are more solid. If we are talking the HelMart Tourney, I'd say they won't last the assembly process. The ones on higher quality bikes are probably going to be okay for a couple of years, at least.
I'd say there are at least three levels of Tourney - Kevcentral talks about this in some detail in his videos. If I recall correctly, that entry-level FX had the rear derailleur with the curved face, which felt much more solid and precise than the flat-faced Tourney that came on my Vybe D7.

But then there's the Tourney of the absolute lowest tier - the one with the red jockey wheel that came on the Jeepy-Kent. Now that was a real piece of work - literally. I often see it on big box bikes from TRU and SACO, as well as the bike shops in downtown Jeddah that sell off-brand Chinese- and Indian-buikt bikes around the $100-$150 range.
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Old 06-14-20, 09:40 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by probe1957 View Post
How noble of you.

When I recently bought my first new road bike, after years on a Trek hybrid, I went with AL for a couple of reasons.

First, I like to watch YouTube videos then do my own work. If I had gone with CF, that introduced a complication wherein I was just afraid I would crush something.

Secondly, I wanted 105 (at least) components. I just couldn't find anything CF close to my budget with 105. So I went AL. Maybe it was a mistake but so far I am pleased. Never ridden a CF bike for any distance at all so really don't know what I am missing.

This is me right here. Wanted the nicer 105s, only able to get on the AL on the giant contend...Never ridden an CF, no clue what I am missing. But on my third year of riding i see performance games month over month, as well as personal fitness goals...i'm happy as a clam on AL.

JAG
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Old 06-14-20, 09:49 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
12 year old $5,700 bike going for $4,000?

No. Sorry, but.... no. No how, no way. Unless the offer came from a Nigerian Prince. Then I can believe it.
You donít know Serotta fans very well.
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Old 06-14-20, 09:54 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by sirjag View Post
This is me right here. Wanted the nicer 105s, only able to get on the AL on the giant contend...Never ridden an CF, no clue what I am missing. But on my third year of riding i see performance games month over month, as well as personal fitness goals...i'm happy as a clam on AL.

JAG
I've never intentionally avoided CF and I am not concerned about it's strength. I rode a friend's CF Bianchi for a short ride. He was actually a Bianchi rep at the time. To me it had a dead feeling and made kind of a hollow sound going over bumps. But, that wouldn't in itself have kept me from owning one. However the cost of a CF frame leaves me with less in terms of components compared to AL. So, unless I win Powerball and can afford a Colnago, DeRosa or Pinarello I'll just stick with my current bikes.
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Old 06-14-20, 10:00 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
A Jamis Ventura is about the cheapest good road bike out there
I'll see your Ventura and raise you this Upland Impreza 300, with Tiagra and Tektro and an alloy fork instead of carbon, that I could locally (as in, right here in Saudi Arabia, delivered to my door by the local dealer) for around the $650 price point. Not exactly a blue chip brand, but hey, can't complain too much for the price (and the fact that it's right there.)

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Old 06-14-20, 11:31 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
My main bike is a Serotta Colorado that cost $5700 fully built 12 years ago. It is all around Campy Chorus. I have been offered $4000 for it. Now the Colorado is a highly coveted steel bike....
I've always liked those. Here's a nice one on ebay in my size. I'm tempted!
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Old 06-14-20, 11:50 AM
  #123  
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Hi folks... I've been looking for a new bike and am considering an aluminum-framed one. What's putting me off is this business of creaking bottom brackets. I'd think that a metal framed bike would be just the ticket for a threaded bb, but no, press-fit seems to be the order of the day with maybe one exception, Trek. Is there anyone here who has an objective measure as to the percentage of press-fit bb problems in newer bikes? Are there a greater percentage of bb problems with CF frames when compared to Aluminum? It seems to be a long-term discussion in forums, but it's probably fair to say that only the problem cases get aired (squeaky wheel getting the grease, so to speak.&#128513

Thanks
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Old 06-14-20, 12:12 PM
  #124  
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Go for it!!! You will be at 4k on a restoration in the blink of an eye. Paint, decals, new fork, headset, stem, bars, groupset, wheels,pedals, tires, saddle and labor.


Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
I've always liked those. Here's a nice one on ebay in my size. I'm tempted!
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Old 06-14-20, 12:24 PM
  #125  
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In recent years I've become a bit of a fan of aluminium/aluminum but I used to be a 'steel is real' disciple having no less than eight custom-built steel frames over an 18-year period and considered alu' frames to be the work of the devil. I did try alu' but the two I had during the latter part of this time (a winter bike and road bike frame I used as a lo-pro) were cheap and nasty and both had alu forks. After a break from cycling I initially bought a Boardman CF road bike that was OK and then a mint and unused alu Giant Defy 2 popped up on eBay from a local seller that I picked it up for about one-third of the new cost. It looked good and was a sweet ride and it opened my mind that the design and construction are probably as important as the frame material. My next bike was an alu' winter bike with a CF fork that was quite harsh and literally a PITA so when a skinny-tubed lugged steel bike came my way via a clubmate I snapped it up. Whilst it looked superb I really couldn't feel that the ride quality was anything special when compared to my Giant Defy and it was slower on my regular routes. I've also had good experiences with two alu' framed commuters (both with steel forks) so when I decided to treat myself to a new road bike my mind was fully open to alu' as a frame material. Seduced by it's good looks and an end of year sales price I went for a 2019 CAAD12 with 105. It's a fantastic bike and I've subsequently bought a 2019 CAAD12 'Team CNCPT' with Dura Ace as a sort of retirement gift to myself but that's not seen the tarmac yet. It looks stunning and feels much lighter than anything I've had before.

Last edited by Welshboy; 06-14-20 at 11:46 PM. Reason: Spelling
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