nlerner

Hmm, here’s a BF post that tips over the proverbial apple cart:

https://www.bikeforums.net/21205571-post30.html

That BFer reports picking up an H. Tano-built frame directly from H. Tano in Kobe!

And then there’s this H. Tano brochure on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-ORI....m46890.l49292

Hmm.

seedsbelize 

+1

seedsbelize 

You would do well to read the whole thing. It took me 30 years, but I'm glad I stuck it out.

gugie 

(I actually have. Twice. Lila too.)

But there's no humor in that, and this orthodoxy thread definitely reminded me of Zen themes.

jonwvara 

I was scheduled to have a cavity in an upper left molar filled back in April. The pandemic put the kibosh on that. My dentist still isn't accepting new appointments. Now the tooth hurts when I bite on it in a certain way. I know I shouldn't, but I bite on it experimentally several times a day, just to see how it's doing.

God help me, I've been doing the same thing with this thread, despite my best efforts not to.

But we're done now, right? Can we tow the hulk of this thread out to sea and sink it with naval gunfire?

cudak888 

^
In five paragraphs, one fellow Googling the forum and searching eBay manages to present more concrete fact to this thread than the OP has in an entire thesis.

The serial number on that frame would be very interesting to see, indeed.

-Kurt

pastorbobnlnh 

Neal, I read your post late last night and headed to bed. Your information haunted my thoughts and kept me awake. Mostly it was the picture of brodycycle 's all white, nearly devoid of decals,Tano (Centurian?)!


What in your post plagued me and kept me from blissful slumber, you ask?

You brought this whole C&V Orthodoxy (theological, sic.) discussion back full circle to my post #12 back on page 1 of this mind numbing and often frustrating thread.

Orthodoxy in my line of work is determined by Creeds and what we Presbyterians call "Confessions of Faith" (not to be confused with "confession of sin" done in the presence of a priest).

One of the original Creeds, The Nicene, in part, was written to refute and make unorthodox, the Gnostic interpretation of Jesus. Gnosticism stated Jesus was never human flesh and blood. Instead, he was a spiritual (or ghostly) entity which only gave the illusion of being human. The Gnostic reasoning for their deduction was based on their flawed human logic that a perfect God would never be manifested in an imperfect human body (please excuse this oversimplification, but I want to keep this brief).

The early church leaders turned to the Gospels in the Bible to refute the Gnostic philosophy, wrote their Creed, thus removing Gnosticism from the orthodox church.

Is the picture of brodycycle's ghostly white, Tano made, Centurian replacement frameset, a Gnostic illusion? Is it possible that it only appears to be a Tano manufactered bicycle, and in reality, on some higher level of existence, it is something altogether different? Is there a Creed (i.e. an official Serial Number guide printed by the manufacturer) that we can consult? Please answer since I cannot endure another sleepless night!

clubman 

You've opened the proverbial Bento Box with this one.

nlerner

Mmm, lunch.

Reynolds 

I learned from a mechanic that if the beer can shim is too thick you can hammer it to the needed thickness.

Trakhak

Or just use aluminum foil in however many layers are necessary.

panzerwagon 

Hammer the shim or the mechanic? Presumably the beer can had already been emptied.

OldsCOOL

Most likely a pile in the corner for future shim stock.

Hummer

Very good. You have done some actual research.

I have seen the pictures of this bicycle before.

Yes, the person that made the post said the bicycle is Tano.
I have seen nothing on the bicycle that indicates H. Tano and Company, but maybe I missed something.
How have you verified that the bicycle frame was manufactured by H. Tano and Company?
The bicycle may have been assembled by H. Tano and Company.
There are no pictures of the serial number which would be helpful with verification.
There are too many unanswered questions about this bicycle for it to be considered definitive proof of H. Tano and Company as a manufacturer.


I have not seen this brochure before. The seller is in Argentina.

South America is one place that I did not look for H. Tano and Company information, but I should have.

It would be nice to know what year the brochure is from.


Mr. Tatsuzo Ueda of Kansai University in Osaka Japan wrote a paper entitled "The Development of the bicycle industry in Japan After World War II", published in 1981. In this paper he shows that in 1957 the three geographic regions that received the most exports of Japanese bicycles and parts were: Southeast Asia, Africa, and Latin America. So, it is not surprising to see this brochure in Argentina. H. Tano and Company specialized in exporting bicycles and South America was a place that was accepting Japanese bicycles and parts.

However the brochure does not say who assembled or manufactured the bicycles.

C. Itoh and Company were also a Japanese trading company that exported bicycles. C. Itoh and Company exported many bicycles with their name on the marquee.

Did C. Itoh ever manufacture bicycle frames?

This H. Tano and Company brochure from Argentina is very interesting, but it is not proof that the Japanese exporter H. Tano and Company manufactured bicycles.

panzerwagon 

So why do you think they advertise themselves as "Exporters and Manufacturers of Bicycles, Parts and Accessories" in their actual advert from 1952?

Bianchi84

Isn't there a little irony (in the colloquial mis-used sense of the word) that John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) said; "I've turned arrogance into an artform, where it's so absurd that it becomes comedy." (?)

cudak888 

We're so glad you approve.

Perhaps this?While one could argue there's a slight possibility that H. Tano was such a large exporter that they could do badge engineering on another supplier's frame, there's no way to prove this otherwise than to ask someone who worked at H. Tano for the answer. For this level of accuracy, marketing documents and/or owners manuals won't cut it, and government documents regarding equipment manufacturer will only go so far.

Ask the owner. If you're so big on research, how about doing a bit yourself?

Any country where bicycles are extremely popular and not marketed as they are in consumer cultures like Europe or the US are good places to search. Information could come from anywhere. For that matter, there's nothing to conclusively prove that brochure was made for the Latin American market either.

*ahem*@panzerwagon is quoting your own post that quotes H. Tano's advertisement.

Have you read and understood your own research?
-Kurt

conspiratemus1

Sinking a ship with gunfire is quite difficult, unless a shell finds its way to a magazine (as with HMS Hood 1941) or starts a fire that does (as with several ships at Jutland.). Failing that, can be done but you have to work at it. Torpedos work better, faster, easier fire control. Point and shoot. The incompressibility of water does the rest. Dastardly, ungentlemanly little buggers they are.

nlerner

With all due respect, what you call "research," I call a 5-minute Google search. Really, it wasn't difficult to find those two artifacts, and once finding them, I did not look for more.

All effective arguments need to have a sense of exigency, an answer to the "so-what?" question. I have yet to see any reason why anyone should care whether or not H. Tano manufactured bicycle frames.

All those making effective arguments also need to establish ethos or the credibility/character of the one making the argument. My assessment (not that you asked for it, but this is the Internet, after all) is that you have not succeeded with this component either.

jonwvara 

Sure, if torpedoes would work better, let's use those.

iab

I thought of that, as I expect most folks on this thread.

But that's not really a good reason whatsoever. Obviously Hummer cares, and if it floats their boat, why do you care? For example, you may have seen my latest quest to determine the evolution of Campagnolo cambio corsa dropouts. I have seen an illustration of 12 teeth and have seen examples of 13, 14, 15, 17 and 19 teeth with varying stampings, eyelets and other features. Why? Why the **** not? A quest to find utterly irrelevant information is the definition of a historian.

I'm interested and if you do not, why would you care enough to reply?

cudak888 

You've got live fish in those tubes, haven't you?


-Kurt

Oldairhead

nlerner

Well, I don't care--but I responded for the same reason I spend any time on this site when I should probably be trying to make progress on my to-do list: distraction, entertainment, social engagement, sharing and learning. Making sound arguments is more aligned with my line of work than most other topics that come up on this site, so I couldn't help myself (though I tried, I swear!).

cudak888 

You could literally put any Garfield Minus Garfield comic in this thread and it would be 100% appropriate no matter where you put it.

-Kurt