Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Simple job turned into a disaster.

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Simple job turned into a disaster.

Old 05-09-20, 06:27 PM
  #1  
sloar 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Elwood Indiana
Posts: 6,664

Bikes: they change so much I'm tired of updating this

Mentioned: 148 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 948 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 307 Times in 142 Posts
Simple job turned into a disaster.

Went to simply pull the drive side crank off today using the correct puller. It was stuck on pretty tight, but I soon felt it give a little. Then all of a sudden it happened, the puller broke free and stripped out the threads. I used a heat gun and a pickle fork with no luck, I finally had enough and since the crank was toast anyway I broke out the propane torch. Couple wacks with the pickle fork and it broke free. I hated having that happen, even though they were just Blaze cranks they were mint and original to my Trek. Oh well.


And yes, the puller was threaded all the way on.
__________________
Semper fi
sloar is offline  
Old 05-09-20, 06:45 PM
  #2  
SurferRosa
Señor Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 3,776

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1551 Post(s)
Liked 1,508 Times in 868 Posts
Happened to me once too with an nds arm really stuck to the spindle. Also used heat and pickle fork and it finally gave way. At least I got it off and saved what I could.
SurferRosa is offline  
Old 05-09-20, 08:06 PM
  #3  
RobbieTunes
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,368 Times in 882 Posts
I have to admit I clicked on this thread to view someone else's misfortune.

Sorry. Someone had to say it, brother.
Semper Fi

Last edited by RobbieTunes; 05-13-20 at 07:15 PM.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Likes For RobbieTunes:
Old 05-09-20, 08:15 PM
  #4  
Hudson308 
Mr. Anachronism
 
Hudson308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: City of Lakes
Posts: 2,010

Bikes: fillet-brazed Chicago Schwinns, and some other stuff

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 503 Post(s)
Liked 181 Times in 126 Posts
HATE when that happens.
__________________
"If we don't change direction soon, we'll end up where we're going." -Irwin Corey
Hudson308 is offline  
Old 05-09-20, 08:20 PM
  #5  
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 16,904

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1021 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times in 204 Posts
Would have happened to anyone who attempted service on that. Mere misfortune, or possibly a previous wrench's mistake. I have a Fuji that has a Mighty Tour crankset that I overtorqued on it. Nobody will be able to get it off without extreme measures. All my fault, but sometimes...
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline  
Old 05-09-20, 08:31 PM
  #6  
due ruote 
Senior Member
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,273
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked 230 Times in 161 Posts
I can make you feel better. I did that to a Deore crank once by forgetting to remove the bolt first. At least I am unlikely to repeat that move.
due ruote is offline  
Likes For due ruote:
Old 05-09-20, 09:13 PM
  #7  
Russ Roth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 1,375

Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked 349 Times in 272 Posts
Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
I can make you feel better. I did that to a Deore crank once by forgetting to remove the bolt first. At least I am unlikely to repeat that move.
I was smart enough to remove the bolt on a deore crank but didn't pay attention to the lack of washer; same result either way and it so sucked. I salvaged the crank by putting the bolt most of the way in and then taking it for a bumpy ride and standing a lot, took a few miles but it worked its way loose. Tightened the bolt a smidge to finish the ride and still be able to take the crank off with a rubber mallet.
Russ Roth is offline  
Likes For Russ Roth:
Old 05-09-20, 09:35 PM
  #8  
P!N20
Senior Member
 
P!N20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,251
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked 548 Times in 332 Posts
I managed to do that to a DS Tricolour crank by not removing the little magnetic protector cap on my extractor tool. [facepalm]
P!N20 is online now  
Old 05-09-20, 11:10 PM
  #9  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 2,848

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked 490 Times in 333 Posts
I forgot to remove the washer removing a Sugino crank and was trying everything, including a hammer on the puller. I didn’t strip the threads, but when finally gave up took the puller out, I noticed the deformed washer and the compressed aluminum. I still have the crank arm but haven’t re-installed it on anything.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Old 05-10-20, 12:08 AM
  #10  
Spaghetti Legs 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 4,014

Bikes: Numerous

Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1223 Post(s)
Liked 648 Times in 310 Posts
”Simple job turned into a disaster”

Story of my life.

To look on the bright side you got to torch something. Similar story, a couple of weeks ago I was removing a rusted in dropout screw. I PB blasted it and felt it give way as I turned the screw but it was really the head twisting off.
__________________
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘85 Pinarello Record, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
Spaghetti Legs is offline  
Likes For Spaghetti Legs:
Old 05-10-20, 01:03 AM
  #11  
Lascauxcaveman 
Senior Member
 
Lascauxcaveman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 7,895

Bikes: A green one, "Ragleigh," or something.

Mentioned: 181 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1577 Post(s)
Liked 461 Times in 271 Posts
Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
I can make you feel better. I did that to a Deore crank once by forgetting to remove the bolt first. At least I am unlikely to repeat that move.
Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
I forgot to remove the washer removing a Sugino crank and was trying everything, including a hammer on the puller. I didn’t strip the threads, but when finally gave up took the puller out, I noticed the deformed washer and the compressed aluminum. I still have the crank arm but haven’t re-installed it on anything.
I've come very close to both these goofs. Each time I was saved by the thought "Waitaminute; I've had this crank off before... there's no way in hell it should be this hard to pull, because I always use fresh grease and I don't crank a crank down all that hard when installing." Don't force it, unless you're truly desperate.
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Trek 400 ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
Lascauxcaveman is offline  
Old 05-10-20, 09:14 AM
  #12  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,844

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 111 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1017 Post(s)
Liked 439 Times in 313 Posts
Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman View Post
I've come very close to both these goofs. Each time I was saved by the thought "Waitaminute; I've had this crank off before... there's no way in hell it should be this hard to pull, because I always use fresh grease and I don't crank a crank down all that hard when installing." Don't force it, unless you're truly desperate.
Assuming here that the OP had the remover fully threaded in to the bottom of the threading, so indication of a well-stuck arm would be unusual torque needed and still not breaking the arm free.

There is an easy way to get such arms off before any damage occurs to the crankarm or to the remover tool:

Leave the puller in place, fully tensioned, then put the cranks horizontal and jump on the pedals hard.
Turn cranks 180-degrees and jump again.
Re-tension the tool, noting if and how far that the tool driver rotates.
Repeat the three steps above until the crankarm comes right off.


If the crankarm threads are stripped:

Remove the bolt and apply LocTite to the inner/outer spindle/bolt threads.
loosely hand-tighten the bolt, then back it off a full turn and half. Allow Loctite to cure (heat greatly accelerates curing).
Apply penetrant to the spindle taper.
Jump on pedals as above, or, that failing, go riding in steep terrain (bring a bolt wrench to monitor progress and to adjust the bolt as needed for ride home).
dddd is offline  
Likes For dddd:
Old 05-10-20, 09:55 AM
  #13  
bear_a_bug 
Senior Member
 
bear_a_bug's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Logan Square, Chicago
Posts: 283

Bikes: 650b'd '74 Raleigh Super Tourer and '83 Trek 620, 2018 Rawland xSogn

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
I forgot to remove the washer removing a Sugino crank and was trying everything, including a hammer on the puller. I didn’t strip the threads, but when finally gave up took the puller out, I noticed the deformed washer and the compressed aluminum. I still have the crank arm but haven’t re-installed it on anything.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

John
Oh God, been there, done that. Nearly reduced to frustration-tears as I hammered away on the crank puller. Took about 30 minutes before I gave up, unscrewed the crank puller and saw where I'd gone wrong. Think about it every time I pull a crank now.
bear_a_bug is offline  
Old 05-10-20, 10:14 AM
  #14  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,308

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1933 Post(s)
Liked 712 Times in 448 Posts
I did that an Ofmega crank on a Bianchi Trofeo once. I wasn't really intending to reuse the cranks but still it stunk.

Stein used, or maybe still does, make a tool for this but when I was thinking about one years ago it was pretty spendy. It retaps the threads oversize and then you install their oversize self extractors. One down side I saw, aside from price, is you kind of need to do both arms or atleast use a matching extractor on the undamaged arm.

__________________
Bianchis '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, '93 Reparto Corse SBX

Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
Bianchigirll is offline  
Old 05-10-20, 10:29 AM
  #15  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 7,278

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1474 Post(s)
Liked 967 Times in 657 Posts
i think i have a blaze crank off my 91 trek
dedhed is offline  
Old 05-13-20, 07:59 AM
  #16  
nomadmax 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,712
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 763 Post(s)
Liked 963 Times in 496 Posts
Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
I have to admit I clicked on this thread to view someone else's misfortune.

Sorry. Someone had to say it.
That's a fellow Jarhead for ya
nomadmax is offline  
Likes For nomadmax:
Old 05-13-20, 08:58 AM
  #17  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,313

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 272 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20143 Post(s)
Liked 3,330 Times in 2,431 Posts
Originally Posted by sloar View Post
Went to simply pull the drive side crank off today using the correct puller. It was stuck on pretty tight, but I soon felt it give a little. Then all of a sudden it happened, the puller broke free and stripped out the threads. I used a heat gun and a pickle fork with no luck, I finally had enough and since the crank was toast anyway I broke out the propane torch. Couple wacks with the pickle fork and it broke free. I hated having that happen, even though they were just Blaze cranks they were mint and original to my Trek. Oh well.


And yes, the puller was threaded all the way on.
...i know this is too late already, and I'm not intent on adding to your sorrow, but if you have a propane torch, and it appeared that the crank was stuck on pretty tight, why not do a couple of heating/cooling cycles right at the crank/ spindle interface before applying all that torque ? I've done that a couple of times, and it helps a lot, especially when you use some penetrating oil at the spindle crank joining surfaces. The oil wicks in like magic. Doesn't seem to hurt the crank, and it doesn't get hot enough to damage the case hardening of the spindle.

But anyway, that's for the future. There's a repair you can do using an oversized crank puller and a repair insert from Stein.*

*edit: I see this tool has already been referenced above.

But it's not cheap to buy the tool. I got one to take advantage of all the relatively nice stripped out cranks that were showing up at the co-op here for a while, but it's probably not worth buying one for the occasional disaster.

Last edited by 3alarmer; 05-13-20 at 09:01 AM.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 05-13-20, 11:08 AM
  #18  
Thomas15
I think I know nothing.
 
Thomas15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NE PA
Posts: 652
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 217 Post(s)
Liked 266 Times in 187 Posts
Would it be possible to use a small 3-jaw puller to remove crank arms if you strip the threads intended for a crank puller?
Thomas15 is offline  
Old 05-13-20, 11:14 AM
  #19  
tyler_fred
Senior Member
 
tyler_fred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Magnolia State, 100° with 110% humidity
Posts: 1,168

Bikes: American, Italian, and Japanese.. in no particular order.

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked 160 Times in 75 Posts
So should crank arms be pulled periodically and a light coat of grease be reapplied to the spindle as a preventative measure against such disasters?
tyler_fred is offline  
Old 05-13-20, 01:06 PM
  #20  
sloar 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Elwood Indiana
Posts: 6,664

Bikes: they change so much I'm tired of updating this

Mentioned: 148 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 948 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 307 Times in 142 Posts
To answer a couple questions and remarks, I did have the puller threaded all the way in. I really didn't crank any harder than I have before on other cranks without issues. This was all done by hand, Ive had to use a rubber mallet in the past without stripping the threads. It was a total surprise to see the puller just fall out of the crank arm. I tried using a couple pullers that I have, but the Blaze crank spider wasn't even enough for the puller to sit straight with the axel. I was trying my best to save the crank so a torch never came to mind until the threads were toast. Lesson learned on this one.
__________________
Semper fi
sloar is offline  
Likes For sloar:
Old 05-13-20, 01:33 PM
  #21  
romperrr 
Pedal to the medal
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: The Arsenal of Democracy
Posts: 947

Bikes: 1991 Team Miyata Track, 1992 Lemond Alpe d'Huez, 19?? Schwinn High Serra, 1982 Trek 614, 198X Raleigh Alyeska

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked 16 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by tyler_fred View Post
So should crank arms be pulled periodically and a light coat of grease be reapplied to the spindle as a preventative measure against such disasters?
From my limited knowledge, stuck cranks are a result of over torquing not seized interfaces so I don't think grease would help. Others may disagree and I believe Phil Wood recommends greasing their bb's from what I recall. YMMV
romperrr is offline  
Old 05-13-20, 01:40 PM
  #22  
SurferRosa
Señor Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 3,776

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1551 Post(s)
Liked 1,508 Times in 868 Posts
Originally Posted by sloar View Post
Lesson learned on this one.
What lesson, though? Sounds like you did everything right. When we pull cranks, we just do it like we always do it. We never think that an arm is super stuck to a spindle until it doesn't come off. One bad case out of a hundred seems ... tolerable.

A bigger issue is to avoid making it a lot worse (like a trip to the ER) when using a ton of force, a heat gun, and a pickle fork. A lot can go wrong in that environment.

.

Last edited by SurferRosa; 05-13-20 at 01:45 PM.
SurferRosa is offline  
Old 05-13-20, 02:08 PM
  #23  
Cute Boy Horse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 629
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 224 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 9 Posts
I've only had this happen to me once. I still have the bike and the threads are still stripped. I just remove the arm, cup, bearings and spindle as one unit now. Not losing any sleep over it.
Cute Boy Horse is offline  
Old 05-13-20, 02:16 PM
  #24  
Bianchi84
Senior Member
 
Bianchi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 439

Bikes: 1984 Bianchi Tipo Corsa, 1985 Cannondale SM600 (24/26)

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked 95 Times in 65 Posts
Originally Posted by tyler_fred View Post
So should crank arms be pulled periodically and a light coat of grease be reapplied to the spindle as a preventative measure against such disasters?
That's one of those Hatfield/McCoy, east coast/west coast, chunky or smooth arguments!
Bianchi84 is offline  
Old 05-14-20, 12:05 AM
  #25  
Andy_K 
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 12,845

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 350 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2094 Post(s)
Liked 675 Times in 357 Posts
I read this thread earlier today, was silently glad it wasn't me, and went about my business. Then tonight I decided to pull the crank on a bike I bought recently to regrease the bottom bracket. I didn't get as far as the crank puller before the suffering began. The drive side dust cap came off very easily as it should. The NDS dust cap on the other hand...



The hex hole was rounded off before I started. I had no luck with a screw extractor. I drilled holes for a pin spanner, which gave me really good leverage, but the cap refused to budge. So I cut a slot to try a flathead screwdriver. Then I hit the edges of the slot with an old dull chisel. Then I used penetrating oil. Back to the pin spanner, I got it to make a quarter turn, but it would go any further. Finally, I got out the heat gun and went back to the pin spanner. Finally, it started to move under near as much force as I could manage. It took about a turn and a half before it started to loosen up.

How in the world do you get a dust cap on that tight?

But it finally came out. The crank came off easily for me. Neither cup shows any signs of being open to moving. The lockring at least came off easily. Now, penetrating oil and sleep. Maybe it will feel like coming out tomorrow.

__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is offline  
Likes For Andy_K:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.