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Springy feeling when sprinting out of the saddle

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Springy feeling when sprinting out of the saddle

Old 01-13-21, 09:54 AM
  #51  
cubewheels
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
most track sprinters are shooting for about 140rpm. What has been found is that higher cadence, which usually requires a smaller gear, doesn’t actually produce more watts. 140 rpm is kind of the sweet spot.
I suppose that is true. I have no plan of sprinting above 140 rpm anyway! I feel like I'm starting to waste more energy just moving my body if I try to get crazy with cadence rpm. Maybe I'm simply not trained for it or probably not a good idea at all.
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Old 01-13-21, 11:19 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
For reference here is a picture of the monstrosity in question:



Trivial question- can anyone point out why this rider spends "long times out of the saddle" on this bike? I think I can?

I feel like I have to follow up so that people can see what they are dealing with, before wasting time commenting on this thread. Now, all that's left is to see this dude riding this contraption.
Let me see if I got this right. You went to some other thread and copied a picture of the OP's bike to include in the current thread? Did he ask you to be so helpful, I don't see that post? And then you use that picture to mock and criticize both the bike and the rider?

There's a word here for that, it's called harassment. Monstrosity, indeed!
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Old 01-22-21, 12:01 PM
  #53  
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Following up on the photo you posted, I wanted to ask, how much experience do you have with road bike frames in 54/56cm frames your size? If you have long legs, you can maybe get away with a good 58cm frame. I understand where you live and with your budget this might be difficult, but in your case I think it is paramount to try and find a used road bike in your size.

First off, its interesting to compare both of our frame fitting endeavors, because they are what I would classify as exact polar opposites. I require a very short top tube and short stem to achieve a good fit, while you require the exact opposite with a longer top tube and very long stem.

But with your limited choice being constrained also by financial limitations, I think this is causing a problem for you. Being very light for your size, you do need a frame which allows you to stretch out and lean forward quite a lot. But I think that the stem you have along with the already long top tube of the mountain bike you are using might be a bit excessive. If you told me that you've already tried at least a few different road bikes closer to your size, and you've tried tweaking them to make sure, and they still didn't work for you , I would understand. But I think its only a matter of time before you try something which works better for you.

In the meantime, it seems like the downwards facing stem is working out good for you, but I suspect that the 110mm stem you are using is a bit too long for you given the already long top tube. I think this, paired with the seat being lower to baseline is causing you to lean forward slightly excessively even for your proportions which is likely the primary factor why you feel like you spend a lot of time out of the saddle.

I am considerably larger and heavier than you, plus I have a significant history with weight lifting, martial arts, and other forms of physical conditioning under my belt. But even with this taken into consideration, I would be out of the saddle quite often when I was riding a bike that was too small and too long for me. With my current ride, no matter how steep the hill is or how fast I am required to sprint, I am out of the saddle less than 1% of the time. Even in that circumstance I simply hover my butt over the saddle which lets me shift my weight rearward into the pedals to maximize efficiency and power.

I have my seat set maybe 5mm below optimal leg extension, so that I can imperceptibly shift between comfortable cruising with my weight into the saddle, or put more weight into the pedals for more powerful sprinting with my butt just slightly above the saddle to achieve full leg extension. But the short top tube, 40mm stem and short reach was a real game changer for me in terms of comfort and efficient performance.

If your top tube along with that long stem is too long for you, which I suspect it might be slightly, but maybe your reach is a bit more acceptable, this is the main reason why you might feel like you are often out of the saddle to compensate.

one more thing to note, it could be that your top tube and reach is an acceptable length due to the proportions of your small mountain bike frame.

I think your stack is already more or less okay, but putting your current handlebars and stem on a well sized road bike with a shorter top tube i think will work out really great for you.,
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Old 01-23-21, 02:53 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Following up on the photo you posted, I wanted to ask, how much experience do you have with road bike frames in 54/56cm frames your size? If you have long legs, you can maybe get away with a good 58cm frame. I understand where you live and with your budget this might be difficult, but in your case I think it is paramount to try and find a used road bike in your size.

First off, its interesting to compare both of our frame fitting endeavors, because they are what I would classify as exact polar opposites. I require a very short top tube and short stem to achieve a good fit, while you require the exact opposite with a longer top tube and very long stem.

But with your limited choice being constrained also by financial limitations, I think this is causing a problem for you. Being very light for your size, you do need a frame which allows you to stretch out and lean forward quite a lot. But I think that the stem you have along with the already long top tube of the mountain bike you are using might be a bit excessive. If you told me that you've already tried at least a few different road bikes closer to your size, and you've tried tweaking them to make sure, and they still didn't work for you , I would understand. But I think its only a matter of time before you try something which works better for you.

In the meantime, it seems like the downwards facing stem is working out good for you, but I suspect that the 110mm stem you are using is a bit too long for you given the already long top tube. I think this, paired with the seat being lower to baseline is causing you to lean forward slightly excessively even for your proportions which is likely the primary factor why you feel like you spend a lot of time out of the saddle.

I am considerably larger and heavier than you, plus I have a significant history with weight lifting, martial arts, and other forms of physical conditioning under my belt. But even with this taken into consideration, I would be out of the saddle quite often when I was riding a bike that was too small and too long for me. With my current ride, no matter how steep the hill is or how fast I am required to sprint, I am out of the saddle less than 1% of the time. Even in that circumstance I simply hover my butt over the saddle which lets me shift my weight rearward into the pedals to maximize efficiency and power.

I have my seat set maybe 5mm below optimal leg extension, so that I can imperceptibly shift between comfortable cruising with my weight into the saddle, or put more weight into the pedals for more powerful sprinting with my butt just slightly above the saddle to achieve full leg extension. But the short top tube, 40mm stem and short reach was a real game changer for me in terms of comfort and efficient performance.

If your top tube along with that long stem is too long for you, which I suspect it might be slightly, but maybe your reach is a bit more acceptable, this is the main reason why you might feel like you are often out of the saddle to compensate.

one more thing to note, it could be that your top tube and reach is an acceptable length due to the proportions of your small mountain bike frame.

I think your stack is already more or less okay, but putting your current handlebars and stem on a well sized road bike with a shorter top tube i think will work out really great for you.,
Most of the fitting advice you wrote doesn't really apply. My bike fit is now perfectly dialed to me and my riding technique and handling is terrific even in downhills. Perhaps a picture of me on the bike would help.

This is me on my bike in an "aero tuck" posture. Observe my feet and calf on the extended leg. That's what a "heel dropper" looks like. And I got my knee angle at 30 degrees at max leg extension, well within optimal values. I can actually spin in that position at over 200 rpm cadence - NOT to sprint but to maintain momentum in downhills where some short sections become flat more or less.

I'm faster and more comfortable in this setup on both flats and climbs than I was running with higher seat. The higher seat also gave me knee problems. Just to show how a different pedaling technique and saddle setback preference can lead to a low seat height without compromise to my power output and still get optimum knee angle.

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Old 01-23-21, 05:47 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
Most of the fitting advice you wrote doesn't really apply. My bike fit is now perfectly dialed to me and my riding technique and handling is terrific even in downhills. Perhaps a picture of me on the bike would help.

This is me on my bike in an "aero tuck" posture. Observe my feet and calf on the extended leg. That's what a "heel dropper" looks like. And I got my knee angle at 30 degrees at max leg extension, well within optimal values. I can actually spin in that position at over 200 rpm cadence - NOT to sprint but to maintain momentum in downhills where some short sections become flat more or less.

I'm faster and more comfortable in this setup on both flats and climbs than I was running with higher seat. The higher seat also gave me knee problems. Just to show how a different pedaling technique and saddle setback preference can lead to a low seat height without compromise to my power output and still get optimum knee angle.

I think that is an excessive tuck ; whether its effective or not, its not a good posture for your back.

Plus, that stem( at least when paired with such a length top tube) is too stretched out for you. You'd still be better off with a larger frame and a slightly shorter overall reach/ETT

My ideas would more directly coincide with your opinion if you were able to safely say you have sufficient experience with a size frame better suited in proportion to your size and riding style.

This application may work fine for most of the riding you see, and I commend you for making due with whatever you have available wherever you live, but I am still entirely unconvinced that this is a best case scenario frame fit.
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Old 01-23-21, 10:42 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
Most of the fitting advice you wrote doesn't really apply. My bike fit is now perfectly dialed to me and my riding technique and handling is terrific even in downhills. Perhaps a picture of me on the bike would help.

This is me on my bike in an "aero tuck" posture. Observe my feet and calf on the extended leg. That's what a "heel dropper" looks like. And I got my knee angle at 30 degrees at max leg extension, well within optimal values. I can actually spin in that position at over 200 rpm cadence - NOT to sprint but to maintain momentum in downhills where some short sections become flat more or less.

I'm faster and more comfortable in this setup on both flats and climbs than I was running with higher seat. The higher seat also gave me knee problems. Just to show how a different pedaling technique and saddle setback preference can lead to a low seat height without compromise to my power output and still get optimum knee angle.

I'm not really sure what to say about this. You say you can pedal at 200+rpm? Please. The number of people that can hold it together at 200rpm in the entire cycling world is microscopically small and for some reason I really doubt you're part of that group.
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Old 01-23-21, 11:48 AM
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Even if you can make it to 150rpm, let alone 200, now try doing so while actually keeping your form tight and efficiently transferring power to the cranks without wobbling and bouncing.

Then, ask yourself, how efficient is it to be doing so for any duration, and what is wrong with your frame fit to be motivating you to pedal like this?
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Old 01-23-21, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cubewheels View Post
This is me on my bike in an "aero tuck" posture.
How is the forward visibility? Can you see much in front of the bike, or does the helmet block most of it?
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Old 01-23-21, 02:25 PM
  #59  
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Keep on keeping on. You're doing great. Fit looks very good. Gotta get a better helmet with better visibility though. Good thing it's white - must get quite warm in there climbing on a hot day. Even with a well ventilated road helmet, I sometimes feel like my head is going to explode.

And sometimes one has to ignore people.
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Old 01-23-21, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Reflector Guy View Post
How is the forward visibility? Can you see much in front of the bike, or does the helmet block most of it?
Straps are loose, wasn't riding that day (recovery day). If the straps are tightened correctly, I move the helmet back a bit.
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Old 01-23-21, 09:55 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Keep on keeping on. You're doing great. Fit looks very good. Gotta get a better helmet with better visibility though. Good thing it's white - must get quite warm in there climbing on a hot day. Even with a well ventilated road helmet, I sometimes feel like my head is going to explode.

And sometimes one has to ignore people.
Thanks! The helmet used to get too hot in climbs. I thought of getting a proper road cycling helmet but that would make me stand out in our poor neighborhood. So I drilled additional holes in my helmet instead (visible in the photo) and carved out ventilation channels which greatly improved cooling. The straps are not tightened correctly that's why it's too low over my forehead.

I have adopted very large seat setback. Exactly how I want it to like a cruiser setback, most comfortable for me and factors into the aero position I'm optimizing for.

Fit is nailed finally! My seat used to be too high until I managed to install the rack down in the seat tube and flipped the bolts on the seat post upside down. Unusual riding position though, very large setback how I want it to like a cruiser setback. Most comfortable for me.
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Old 01-23-21, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
I'm not really sure what to say about this. You say you can pedal at 200+rpm? Please. The number of people that can hold it together at 200rpm in the entire cycling world is microscopically small and for some reason I really doubt you're part of that group.
I'll see about getting a video this week out in the road.
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