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riding with lights without despoiling bike

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riding with lights without despoiling bike

Old 01-17-21, 03:36 PM
  #26  
woodcraft
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Nothing wrong with a little despoilation, IMO...


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Old 01-18-21, 04:50 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
Seems like you have a lot of options but I’ll just throw in my setup which like you I wanted to keep clean. This was my old garmin and Bontrager light. Has since been replaced with a newer Bontrager Ion and Garmin. Mount is a K Spoon for one piece bar/stem combos with the holes on the underside. The adjustment knob that sticks out has also been removed and replaced with a nut so it’s cleaner along with color matched leather bar tape from Busyman Cycles.


Curious if you ride with your hands on the tops of your bars. Why no tape there?
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Old 01-18-21, 06:43 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by waters60 View Post
Curious if you ride with your hands on the tops of your bars. Why no tape there?
It's pretty typical to not tape the tops of aero-shaped bars. Mine aren't taped, either, and I get along just fine with holding that section, even though I typically don't wear gloves.
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Old 01-18-21, 07:14 AM
  #29  
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profjmb I'm with ya - I do NOT like riding a cluttered bike. But, to borrow a word from your thread title, I do want to end up despoiled because a distracted motorist didn't see my black on black on black bike...

I did what several of the others posted - found an out front computer mount that could be adapted to hold my Cygolite, using the GoPro mount. I went from not riding with anything but a blinky red light on the seatpost to wanting no less than 1,000 lumens (that's not obnoxiously bright) strobe out front.

From where I sit, the light's invisible.

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Old 01-18-21, 09:39 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by waters60 View Post
Curious if you ride with your hands on the tops of your bars. Why no tape there?
I ride the tops when climbing and at other times, love the platform of these bars. No tape needed, plus I had the bars painted to match by the frame builder so last thing I wanted to do was cover it up!
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Old 01-18-21, 11:15 AM
  #31  
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Same - no need for tape on the middle section. I really only rest my hands there - no pulling like with the hoods, drops
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Old 01-23-21, 05:42 AM
  #32  
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robbyville the colour of your bike is absolutely stunning.

Lots of great ideas in this thread!

I picked up this "be seen" light, it sandwiches between my Garmin and it's mount, and works really well. It's a Fabric Lumaray V2.


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Old 01-26-21, 09:54 AM
  #33  
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Yep you want something that is powerful enough to grab attention on a bright day. I'm running a Cygolite Dash 600 in stobe mode and I don't have it pointing down at the ground. Small lights or anything that is advertised as "be seen" tend to be underpowered and only noticeable in the day at distance if you are looking for them. Next time your riding and you see another cyclist ask yourself what you noticed first. If it wasn't the light, then whatever they are using is not doing it's job. Chances are you will notice the cyclist first then see the underpowered light they are running.
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Old 01-26-21, 07:25 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
robbyville the colour of your bike is absolutely stunning.

Lots of great ideas in this thread!

I picked up this "be seen" light, it sandwiches between my Garmin and it's mount, and works really well. It's a Fabric Lumaray V2.
Thank you! It’s my dream bike and I love to ride it. I don’t think being seen with good lights and also having a great looking bike are mutually exclusive.
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Old 01-26-21, 08:20 PM
  #35  
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Worried about the aesthetics of a front light, but you have a saddle bag??

Over/under setup is pretty clean. Could run a smaller light if it's daytime use only, but I like the 950 for night rides.

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Old 01-27-21, 05:25 AM
  #36  
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Good luck in your search for the perfect light.
I still don’t use brakes on my beautiful bicycle because I have yet to find ones that don’t ruin it’s gorgeous look.
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Old 01-27-21, 11:59 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Worried about the aesthetics of a front light, but you have a saddle bag??

Over/under setup is pretty clean. Could run a smaller light if it's daytime use only, but I like the 950 for night rides.

Well that’s no smaller or less consipicuos than the OP’s Ion Pro RT, and it’s less powerful. I get that some people don’t mind the look of a +15 year old flashlight design hanging out front of their bike upside down, but I share the OP’s hope that we could do better than that in 2021.
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Old 01-27-21, 12:03 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
WI get that some people don’t mind the look of a +15 year old flashlight
They do look like that don't they? It would be nice to have a sleek light that is not underpowered.
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Old 01-27-21, 12:10 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
They do look like that don't they? It would be nice to have a sleek light that is not underpowered.
Exactly. I look at how the new Lemond bikes have tailights integrated into the seatstays, for example, and wonder what might be possible to do at the forks, or even the handlebar. I wonder if a stem couldn’t be designed with faceplate that integrates a light? Even lamps which are wider than they are long are preferred by my eye.
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Old 01-27-21, 12:51 PM
  #40  
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It would probably be better to ask the particular headlight manufactures, but don't most bike lights have a beam that is designed to operate in a particular position, (usually upright) and wouldn't flipping it upside down compromise this? I suspect cheap lights are not designed with a top and bottom but would be surprised if high end lights weren't.
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Old 01-27-21, 12:57 PM
  #41  
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Integrated lights are a problem when something goes wrong with them, especially few years down the road when spare parts are nowhere to be had. Non-integrated you just chuck out and buy the new one for ten twenty or whatever dollars and you are OK again. I once suggested the integrated idea here and was put down for it and I have to say, I agree with the critics of it.

As for lights, no matter what you do, that kind of situation that happened twice to OP is still on the books. Happened to me once when 18 yrs old, in full daylight, I escaped pretty well unharmed, bike ended up on the vehicle front wheel pretty well destroyed, I flew over its hood and ended up rolling down the road curled up like a hedgehog. In those days, I rode with toe clips and so was free from the bike in no time, no idea what would happen if I was clipless like you all are nowadays.

Problem is the view angle the driver sees you. You ride on the side of the road and the drivers making left turn against you see you (if they do see you) against the road side where you sort of blend in. Besides car drivers typically scan the road without looking for any smaller details (like bikes) which are typically too much on the road side to be noticed. You should still do defensive riding even with good lights, rely only on eye contact which means not maintaining high speeds when you are close to home on town streets.
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Old 01-27-21, 01:26 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
It would probably be better to ask the particular headlight manufactures, but don't most bike lights have a beam that is designed to operate in a particular position, (usually upright) and wouldn't flipping it upside down compromise this? I suspect cheap lights are not designed with a top and bottom but would be surprised if high end lights weren't.
I think very few lights in the North American market, at any price, have shaped lenses which would make mounting orientation problematic. The German STVZO standard does require a cut-off in the lens and are shaped/directional in that way, and would not work well upside down. There are few of those here in USA, though.
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Old 01-27-21, 01:49 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by vane171 View Post
Integrated lights are a problem when something goes wrong with them, especially few years down the road when spare parts are nowhere to be had. Non-integrated you just chuck out and buy the new one for ten twenty or whatever dollars and you are OK again. I once suggested the integrated idea here and was put down for it and I have to say, I agree with the critics of it.

As for lights, no matter what you do, that kind of situation that happened twice to OP is still on the books. Happened to me once when 18 yrs old, in full daylight, I escaped pretty well unharmed, bike ended up on the vehicle front wheel pretty well destroyed, I flew over its hood and ended up rolling down the road curled up like a hedgehog. In those days, I rode with toe clips and so was free from the bike in no time, no idea what would happen if I was clipless like you all are nowadays.

Problem is the view angle the driver sees you. You ride on the side of the road and the drivers making left turn against you see you (if they do see you) against the road side where you sort of blend in. Besides car drivers typically scan the road without looking for any smaller details (like bikes) which are typically too much on the road side to be noticed. You should still do defensive riding even with good lights, rely only on eye contact which means not maintaining high speeds when you are close to home on town streets.
integration does not necessarily preclude either serviceability or upgradeability, nor does it necessarily mean expensive high prices.

For example, in the same way accessory bosses like for bottle cages, fender and rack mounts are standardized at 5mm bolts with .5 thread pitch and spaced a standard distance apart, couldn’t something similar be done for, say, a headtube light mount? The answer is, of course it could. Could a standard be made for a fork mount light? Again, of course it could, in the same way we have disc brake mount standards.

That’s not to say there aren’t obstacles to doing so, or is it to imply there is even will to do it, but it could be done by an industry leader taking, well, the lead. I don’t know if that’s likely, but my point is that it does not take a lot of imagination to figure out how bike lights could move beyond being basically strap-on flashlights.

As an aside, in my experience, clipless pedals are generally easier to exit than securely cinched toe clips. I also go back to the days when cleats were slotted blocks which slipped over the pedal cage and then cinched down with toe clips. Give me clipless pedals any day when it comes to safety.
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Old 01-27-21, 06:33 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I got one of these for my Cygolite Expilion:



https://www.amazon.com/Cygolite-Adap.../dp/B07TFL29D6

If you’re talking about a combo computer mount with GoPro fitting, KOM Cycling make an affordable alternative to the K-Edge:



https://komcycling.com/collections/f...oo-gopro-mount

Unavailable on Amazon per link. I get them on ebay for $10. Fast shipping from Trail this.

I use this mount on alum hb mounts also on ebay for $5 (d for $10). Also in black and use fast delivery time estimations. Had some fast shippers, this is one but only blue available right now from this ebay store. Also inexpensive alum screws for go pro type cameras. Love them!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CygoLite-Mo...53.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pack-31-8...53.m2749.l2649
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Old 01-27-21, 07:05 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by UCantTouchThis View Post
Unavailable on Amazon per link. I get them on ebay for $10. Fast shipping from Trail this.

I use this mount on alum hb mounts also on ebay for $5 (d for $10). Also in black and use fast delivery time estimations. Had some fast shippers, this is one but only blue available right now from this ebay store. Also inexpensive alum screws for go pro type cameras. Love them!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CygoLite-Mo...53.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pack-31-8...53.m2749.l2649
This is the bar on my Doppler. There’s that thing they say about great minds... 😉

What are the screws you’re talking about like? I’d like a tool-less thumbscrew for the GoPro mounts, but something much sleeker than that huge, stock style.


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Old 01-28-21, 12:00 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
This is the bar on my Doppler. There’s that thing they say about great minds... 😉

What are the screws you’re talking about like? I’d like a tool-less thumbscrew for the GoPro mounts, but something much sleeker than that huge, stock style.

I've got several colors. Many options on ebay, I chose the fast shipping places of course. Some options are 2 screws and a wrench. I have a few wrenches, easy slip into the bag and these things are secure. Toss the little o rings though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Set-Blue-...kAAOSw61lfQLDK

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Old 01-28-21, 08:15 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I think very few lights in the North American market, at any price, have shaped lenses which would make mounting orientation problematic. The German STVZO standard does require a cut-off in the lens and are shaped/directional in that way, and would not work well upside down. There are few of those here in USA, though.
Thanks, chaadster.

Here's my light, the Bontrager 700 ion. If you look close you will notice the top of the beam is shielded farther out than the bottom. I've also seen other lights designed in this manner and there must be a reason for it. Surely this will cut off the top spill more compared to the bottom which has a shorter shield. Maybe the difference is small and only oncoming traffic can tell the difference, but it seems to me there must be some. I think I'll flip mine just for a test.

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Old 01-28-21, 08:38 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Thanks, chaadster.

Here's my light, the Bontrager 700 ion. If you look close you will notice the top of the beam is shielded farther out than the bottom. I've also seen other lights designed in this manner and there must be a reason for it. Surely this will cut off the top spill more compared to the bottom which has a shorter shield. Maybe the difference is small and only oncoming traffic can tell the difference, but it seems to me there must be some. I think I'll flip mine just for a test.

I don’t think that tiny bit of shroud shaping will any effect on the light distribution at all; to be in shadow cast by the shroud, the viewing angle would have to be virtually perfectly perpendicular to the lens face. The only viewer who could be anywhere near that angle is the cyclist on whose handlebar the light is mounted. If those kinds of shrouds aren’t there to protect the user from glare, they are merely styling elements, because they have no impact on the distribution of light in front of the lens.
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Old 01-28-21, 12:09 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I also go back to the days when cleats were slotted blocks which slipped over the pedal cage and then cinched down with toe clips.
I was 18 yrs old and didn't use those slotted blocks. That helped.

Generally I would be in favor of more integration but people put up quite strong arguments against it. Reason water bottle cage nuts are integrated is because even pro racers use them during a race. Other integrated options, like those lights wouldn't show up on those race bikes (even pros strap on bike lights on their training rides but they don't carry lights in races) and the top end market of serious bikers, those who may not race but are image conscious wouldn't buy bikes with 'consumer like features' on them, features you won't see on race bikes.
Also would make it more expensive for top end bike frame makers to have no such features for racers and integrated them for the rest of us (who should always have lights on bikes, all our rides are training rides in traffic).

And trust manufacturers to lock you into their flavor of integration. Bottle or brake posts are one thing, light and what not else quite another. You would get a different standard from each bike frame or stem/bar maker. Mind you, I believe there is a bar-stem integrated cockpit with light built into it which looks very nice, on a very high end (read expensive) model. I doubt we would all be content with the light intensity and what not else, given you couldn't shop for the light for your particular needs.

I have a rather gruesome story on topic, the same accident with car turning left against oncoming bicyclist. Two years ago, in Europe and very close to where I ride bike, this guy rode a bike to attend a funeral in a nearby town and he packed the proper black suit for the funeral occasion into a backpack to change into it upon arrival there.
The route took him through a town where there was longer downhill coming to town and in town itself, there is an even steeper downhill section in the middle of which is a T intersection (branching off to the bicyclist's right). Uphill against him drove a heavy duty big truck and made that left turn without noticing the bike... Was instant death, the guy didn't fly over the vehicle hood like I did, the truck was too high for that, but splatted against its side, basically like hitting a wall head on.

I don't know if he had light or even flashing but seriously doubt the truck driver would have noticed him anyway or if he did, it would be too late in this particular situation once he started that left turn.

I am glad I didn't know him personally, I was just morbidly thinking, they could very conveniently change him into that black suit he brought with him in his backpack... Needless to say, as precaution, I never ride through that part of town, there is another, a bit slower side road in town you can take to get around that T intersection. I only tell this to drive into people's heads to ride defensively, lights help but are no guarantee.

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Old 01-28-21, 03:53 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by vane171 View Post
I was 18 yrs old and didn't use those slotted blocks. That helped.

Generally I would be in favor of more integration but people put up quite strong arguments against it. Reason water bottle cage nuts are integrated is because even pro racers use them during a race. Other integrated options, like those lights wouldn't show up on those race bikes (even pros strap on bike lights on their training rides but they don't carry lights in races) and the top end market of serious bikers, those who may not race but are image conscious wouldn't buy bikes with 'consumer like features' on them, features you won't see on race bikes.
Also would make it more expensive for top end bike frame makers to have no such features for racers and integrated them for the rest of us (who should always have lights on bikes, all our rides are training rides in traffic).

And trust manufacturers to lock you into their flavor of integration. Bottle or brake posts are one thing, light and what not else quite another. You would get a different standard from each bike frame or stem/bar maker. Mind you, I believe there is a bar-stem integrated cockpit with light built into it which looks very nice, on a very high end (read expensive) model. I doubt we would all be content with the light intensity and what not else, given you couldn't shop for the light for your particular needs.

I have a rather gruesome story on topic, the same accident with car turning left against oncoming bicyclist. Two years ago, in Europe and very close to where I ride bike, this guy rode a bike to attend a funeral in a nearby town and he packed the proper black suit for the funeral occasion into a backpack to change into it upon arrival there.
The route took him through a town where there was longer downhill coming to town and in town itself, there is an even steeper downhill section in the middle of which is a T intersection (branching off to the bicyclist's right). Uphill against him drove a heavy duty big truck and made that left turn without noticing the bike... Was instant death, the guy didn't fly over the vehicle hood like I did, the truck was too high for that, but splatted against its side, basically like hitting a wall head on.

I don't know if he had light or even flashing but seriously doubt the truck driver would have noticed him anyway or if he did, it would be too late in this particular situation once he started that left turn.

I am glad I didn't know him personally, I was just morbidly thinking, they could very conveniently change him into that black suit he brought with him in his backpack... Needless to say, as precaution, I never ride through that part of town, there is another, a bit slower side road in town you can take to get around that T intersection. I only tell this to drive into people's heads to ride defensively, lights help but are no guarantee.
I don't find the racer argument persuasive at all. If bike design and production were only predicated on what pros race, we'd not have most categories of bikes, from folding bikes, to beach cruisers, to hybrids, to city bikes, to ebikes. That those bike categories exist are evidence that even if the mechanism you describe is real, that there is plenty of room in the market.

We've also seen, over the past couple of years, that growth in expensive ebikes and premium priced conventional bikes, especially among the feature rich, full suspension MTB segment, has been growing, strongly suggesting that there is a pathway for manufacturers to invest in new tech, like integration, and seek correspondingly higher wholesale pricing.

A perfect example of both of those points is in-frame storage, e.g. the Specialized SWAT Box, which several other manufacturers have brought to market as well. Trek has even brought their in-frame tech to both carbon and aluminum frames.

And yes, light integration has been done. Interesting ideas can be taken from Van Moof with their cartridge design, and Lemond has frame integrated tail lights which basically smaller SWAT-style cutouts in the chainstays, and their integrated headlamp is in a bar/stem combo.

Could a bunch of different proprietary systems emerge? Of course, and certainly they will, however, we could get a standard, just as we've gotten for top tube bag mounts. Maybe the headlight answer is exactly that: a couple of mounts on the headtube. Maybe it's something like a cross between Di2 tech and BMC's internal cable routing stem, allowing a battery in the steerer tube and wiring through the handlebar. The ideas and tech are already a reality, and if they turn out to be proprietary integration solutions, who really cares provided the manufacturer supports the product. Other proprietary integrated products, like seat posts, headset spacers, and forks have not led to a crisis of bikes being scrapped, and I can only surmise that if unsupported, less mission-critical bits like integrated lights, wouldn't precipate trashing a bike, either, so I don't see a whole lot to fear in there.

I'll reiterate what I said in a previous post: none of this is to say there aren't obstacles, but the only insurmountable one is lack of will.
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