Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Starting Point for FTP

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Starting Point for FTP

Old 01-25-21, 12:38 PM
  #51  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
It's in line with beginner competition associated with Cat 4/5 races. Around here, which isn't bike racing mecca, he'd be unlikely to leave 4/5 with an FTP of 3.2.
So now cat 4 is also beginners category?
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 12:42 PM
  #52  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I can't figure out why you're so invested in this. Are you that desperate to try to save face on being wrong? Or is it that you don't like the implications of your own performance relative to someone that's being described as a beginner?
The irony in this post is extraordinary. I have just shown that I am right and you still pretend that I am wrong? You must live in quite the fantasy world.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 12:43 PM
  #53  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Probably both.
Aww what a lovely circle jerk you two got going on.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 12:50 PM
  #54  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,306

Bikes: Felt AR, Longteng LTK 118 with Chinese carbon everything.

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2550 Post(s)
Liked 1,305 Times in 651 Posts
Alright. Well, ZHVelo has established himself as a resident of trollville.

Have fun with that.
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 01:13 PM
  #55  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 33,001

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 342 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15469 Post(s)
Liked 4,315 Times in 2,270 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
The irony in this post is extraordinary. I have just shown that I am right and you still pretend that I am wrong? You must live in quite the fantasy world.
You proved that you're right by showing that a broad-strokes power: weight chart has him in the ballpark of beginners?
WhyFi is online now  
Old 01-25-21, 02:46 PM
  #56  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
You proved that you're right by showing that a broad-strokes power: weight chart has him in the ballpark of beginners?
rubik: "It's at a beginner level, which fits, since you're a beginner."

Also rubik: "At USA Cycling races, riders typically start at the beginner level(category 5) and work their way up the ranks with upgrade points."

This guy has literally just started cycling and has no prior endurance background. And yet rubik references competitive cycling. But ok, let's go with that. He then referenced cat 5 as being the beginner category (how many beginners are there and how many because they simply aren't better?) and then I linked a table showing despite being a complete beginner to cycling, this dude is already above the cat 5 category.

Not to mention the entire claim is ridiculous anyway. How many non-beginners are at 3.21 w/kg or below? He could have said amateur, or low or medium or whatever, but 3.21 is neither a beginner level by racing category w/kg estimate (yes, since he has never raced he would still be in cat 5 and probably get dropped because he has no tactics but that is a separate matter) nor is there any meaning attached to calling it beginner level in a general sense. In fact, that would imply more advanced cyclists are above that level, and yet so many are even below it (according to this, 39%, that's an awful lot). The statement '3.21w/kg is beginner level' makes very little sense in and of itself.

Then rubik's statement that I am out of my depth - in what way? This discussion has very little to do with cycling. You can have it purely based on the numbers. You could even argue beginner level is higher than that - if you consider crossover athletes, e.g. rowers or skiiers, when they become beginner cyclists they are very likely to have a lot higher FTP given their aerobic capacities.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 02:49 PM
  #57  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Alright. Well, ZHVelo has established himself as a resident of trollville.

Have fun with that.
Thanks for welcoming me Mr. Mayor.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 03:13 PM
  #58  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 33,001

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 342 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15469 Post(s)
Liked 4,315 Times in 2,270 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
He then referenced cat 5 as being the beginner category (how many beginners are there and how many because they simply aren't better?)
WhyFi is online now  
Old 01-25-21, 03:23 PM
  #59  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Cool story.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 03:29 PM
  #60  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 33,001

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 342 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15469 Post(s)
Liked 4,315 Times in 2,270 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
Cool story.
It is... if you know the story.
WhyFi is online now  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 01-25-21, 03:31 PM
  #61  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
It is... if you know the story.
Not what I meant.

Look I have no idea how the cats work and maybe all are beginners in cat 5 and then automatically move up after a certain number of races. Doesn't' matter. You responded to everything I wrote with an emoji about one irrelevant part. And that says everything.

Last edited by ZHVelo; 01-25-21 at 03:35 PM.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 03:37 PM
  #62  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 33,001

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 342 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15469 Post(s)
Liked 4,315 Times in 2,270 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
Look I have no idea how the cats work
We know.
WhyFi is online now  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 01-25-21, 03:40 PM
  #63  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
We know.
And that is completely and utterly irrelevant to the discussion. As I said, the fact that you are so hung up about that sole fact and ignore everything, says it all.

Just read a little - it's not getting better for you and your bum buddy. Everyone starts in cat 5 and you need 10 races to move up - that implies even someone with a > 4.0 w/kg ftp will be in cat 5 to start with. So would you say 4.0w/kg is a beginner's ftp? Do you now see how irrelevant the cats are to the question posed in the OP?

Last edited by ZHVelo; 01-25-21 at 03:47 PM.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 03:47 PM
  #64  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 39,741

Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2493 Post(s)
Liked 1,614 Times in 812 Posts
This reminds me of the time when I raced Cherry Pie as a Cat 5. Nate English lapped the field. He was a little older than the OP as he had just graduated from Cal, where he ran XC. By the end of the summer, he had promoted to Cat 1. The next season he signed a pro contract. I was still a 5.

Very few people had power meters back then but I have a suspicion that his FTP was over 3.2 w/kg.
caloso is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 03:51 PM
  #65  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
This reminds me of the time when I raced Cherry Pie as a Cat 5. Nate English lapped the field. He was a little older than the OP as he had just graduated from Cal, where he ran XC. By the end of the summer, he had promoted to Cat 1. The next season he signed a pro contract. I was still a 5.

Very few people had power meters back then but I have a suspicion that his FTP was over 3.2 w/kg.
Someone with a XC background reminds you of the OP who has no endurance background? Odd.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 03:56 PM
  #66  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 33,001

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 342 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15469 Post(s)
Liked 4,315 Times in 2,270 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
Just read a little -
Read more.
WhyFi is online now  
Old 01-25-21, 03:58 PM
  #67  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 39,741

Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2493 Post(s)
Liked 1,614 Times in 812 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
Someone with a XC background reminds you of the OP who has no endurance background? Odd.
No, the point was that everyone's first race is in Cat 5. As I recall, he was upgraded before the normally mandatory 10 races.
caloso is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 04:14 PM
  #68  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Read more.
I will if you reply to the rest i wrote and show me that the statement does in fact make sense.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 04:25 PM
  #69  
RChung
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,672
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 419 Post(s)
Liked 294 Times in 117 Posts
This thread (and the recent one in General Cycling, damn you, WhyFi ) remind me to be glad not to check into Bikeforums too frequently.
RChung is offline  
Likes For RChung:
Old 01-25-21, 04:38 PM
  #70  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 33,001

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 342 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15469 Post(s)
Liked 4,315 Times in 2,270 Posts
Originally Posted by RChung View Post
This thread (and the recent one in General Cycling, damn you, WhyFi ) remind me to be glad not to check into Bikeforums too frequently.
You're just asking to be @'ed more frequently, ain't ya?

WhyFi is online now  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 01-25-21, 05:07 PM
  #71  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,306

Bikes: Felt AR, Longteng LTK 118 with Chinese carbon everything.

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2550 Post(s)
Liked 1,305 Times in 651 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
We know.
The only accurate and sensible thing he's said in this entire thing!
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 05:15 PM
  #72  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
The only accurate and sensible thing he's said in this entire thing!
Yes Mr. Mayor tell us more about your amazing insights.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 05:16 PM
  #73  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,306

Bikes: Felt AR, Longteng LTK 118 with Chinese carbon everything.

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2550 Post(s)
Liked 1,305 Times in 651 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post

This guy has literally just started cycling and has no prior endurance background. And yet rubik references competitive cycling.
Wrong. Again. He referenced it first. You've ignored his quote.
Originally Posted by dsmyth12
And in terms of getting a coach, it would be for the purpose of seeing how far I can push myself in competition.

Then rubik's statement that I am out of my depth - in what way? This discussion has very little to do with cycling. You can have it purely based on the numbers. You could even argue beginner level is higher than that - if you consider crossover athletes, e.g. rowers or skiiers, when they become beginner cyclists they are very likely to have a lot higher FTP given their aerobic capacities.
In these ways:

Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
I don't know about you but "beginner competitive" is an oxymoron to me.

Look I have no idea how the cats work

This wouldn't be nearly as comical if you weren't snowballing your mistakes into even bigger mistakes, but you go from decrying the association with bike racing to then admitting you know nothing about bike racing while trying to argue against bike racing! It's hilarious.

The doubling and tripling down on their ignorance is what makes so many posters on this site so entertaining. And you're the big winner this week!
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 05:19 PM
  #74  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,306

Bikes: Felt AR, Longteng LTK 118 with Chinese carbon everything.

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2550 Post(s)
Liked 1,305 Times in 651 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
Yes Mr. Mayor tell us more about your amazing insights.
There's no "us", here. There's just you parading about showcasing how you don't know what you don't know, don't know what you think you know, and don't know what you're asserting you know.
rubiksoval is offline  
Likes For rubiksoval:
Old 01-25-21, 05:21 PM
  #75  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,306

Bikes: Felt AR, Longteng LTK 118 with Chinese carbon everything.

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2550 Post(s)
Liked 1,305 Times in 651 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
and then I linked a table showing despite being a complete beginner to cycling, this dude is already above the cat 5 category.
Tables have nothing to do with bike racing or the category in which you race. There may be averages that may be descriptive of certain aspects of categories, but neither race results nor categories are based on tables.

Much like FTP!

Which is kind of the ironic point that you and the OP both miss. But he's a beginner, so that's fine. You're just ignorant and arguing about something you don't understand.

Last edited by rubiksoval; 01-25-21 at 05:26 PM.
rubiksoval is offline  
Likes For rubiksoval:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.