Calio

Howdy folks,
I'm a bit new here (although I have read the forums on & off for 8 or so years)

I'm looking for a traditional roadster bicycle, price is no object, but would like to spend less than $2,500 usd. I am planning on putting a wald 157 on the front, as well as large rear panniers.

I currently have a 2010 or 11 Lombardo "City Touring 28" roadster, that I bought in high school. It has been through a number of Wisconsin & Nebraska winters with almost no mainteneance (I am sorry) It's actually not in terrible condition despite this. However, I'd like to purchase a new bike.

As I am looking for a traditional roadster, it could be surmised that aesthetic beauty & utility are my primary motives in making a purchase. I don't mind purchasing a bike that's less expensive necessarily. It also should be noted that I don't like the look of a Pashley (gasp)

I've thought about buying a "Phoenix" fenghuang PA-18 off of taobao, putting new rims, wheels, tires, & maybe a sturmey-archer rear hub. This is a VERY inexpensive option & it would be a bicycle that would have a ton of "character". It has absolutely beautiful paintwork. Although, a lot of the components would need to be changed due to cheap manufacturing.

Another inexpensive option is the "Peace" bicycles

That said, I love Italian craftsmanship & I am currently leaning towards an Umberto Dei Imperiale or a Taurus Corinto. If there are any other beautiful bikes that are "flying under my radar" I would love to here suggestions & comments. Thank you everyone!

Stadjer

There are plenty of Dutch roadsters, but they will be more utilitarian than Italian bikes. They can look good, but it's not like Italians who often start from aesthetics and eye for detail and end up with something utilitarian, it's more the other way around.

I believe the Gazelle Tour populair with rod brakes still looks pretty good with the right saddle and grips, despite some aesthetic flaws. Rod brakes do limit the front rack options though, that won't be different with a Taurus or Umberto with rod brakes because the rods are often in the way of the rack mount. There are options that look good but not always that easy to find. There's also the Workcycles secret service and there's Azor. The Gazelle is pretty solid but Workcycles and Azor make really durable bikes, Azor is the most utilitarian but they have some interesting frames but you have to pick your own parts and paints from a wide range anyway so you can make one look pretty good. That seems a much better option than the Fenghuang.

Calio

Thank you my friend! I REALLY like the Gazelle you've suggested. Beautiful bike. I oddly like the rod brakes as well, although I suppose putting a front carrier on would be a bit of an issue (although I could probably get around this by simply using a large front basket.)


As a funny note about rod brakes, I actually snapped a brake cable on my Lombardo roadster on my way home this evening...


The Azor & workcycles are real utility tanks! Fantastic machines, probably would last a century or more if maintained properly. They're also easy to purchase in the US which is a major plus, although I certainly wouldn't mind an excuse to spend a week in Europe.


That said, I absolutely love the Italian bikes. As far as Italian bikes go there is also Abici. Very tough decision I have to make. I've also thought about Achielle, a Belgian make I believe.


Regardless, I think I'm probably between the Gazelle, the Umberto Dei, & the Taurus. Although part of me wonders if I should purchase a Workcycles Pastoorsfiets as well... (maybe have one as a commuter, & the other as a backup/grocery getter)


We'll see

Stadjer

I always liked the mechanism and their feel, but I guess I just like shiny bits too. But for me it's also practical because it's less cables to get entangled in cramped bike racks. I'm not that fond of the Tour Populair because it's not as good as the same model from the 50's and 60's and I owned a pre WWII simular model from Gazelle. That's just a different class of durability, somewhere halfway the 80's the higher end Dutch bike manufacters outsourced a lot of parts to Asia and the paint jobs had changed because of environmental and worker's health concerns which I support of course, but the quality isn't entirely as classic as it looks. It's still a good bike though, it's just that it seems more a bike for 50 years than a bike that'll last a 100 years like the old ones. I ride a 40 year old Gazelle Impala rod brakes, which is quite simular in geometry, and it will probably outlast a new Tour Populair, although it was supposed to be a bit sportier and wasn't build like a tank like pre WWII (the real classic Dutch bike snobs will claim that build quality went downhill in the early 30's because of the Wall Street Crash of '29 and never recovered). I also don't like a few details, like the emblem on the front fender not in stainless steel or chrome and not picking a rear reflector that is shaped with some attention.

There's about 1 cm of spaces between the handlebar and the horizontal rod, the rack or basket mount has to fit in between or go around it. These will work:


The problem with the last one is that after decades Steco has changed the material from stainless steel to steel with a chrome coloured cover material. That's not only the wrong shade of chrome, it's also more rust prone. I replaced it after two years with a vintage stainless steel one I managed to find. It turned out to be one for 26" wheels and too small, but the 70's headlight mount is so overdesigned that I fixed it to that, it's very solid. With a basket you have to make sure the bolts on the rods don't get stuck in the basket, otherwise the brakes won't work.

Azor emerged because they do old fashioned build quality many Dutch still expect or want, while the classic brands like Gazelle and Batavus have compromised. I believe Workcycles has most of their bikes manufactured by Azor. I don't know how to get a customized bike by Azor, they don't do marketing, I think the idea is that the LBS takes you through the process. Appearently that's how it started, Dutch LBS' saying they and their customers wanted old fashioned quality taylormade. Anyway, expect delivery times of months rather than days if you don't buy one of the shelf.


I advise against Achielle. It's a young company and maybe they have improved by now, but somehow this Dutch tradition of sturdy and durable bikes never made it across the border. They were a bit of hit here recently but I've one friend complaining about it rusting and another about excessive mechanical drag. It's seems to me they are made to look like something they're not. Imo if a rear rack looks like it will hold an adult it should be able to carry that weight, not just from a practical Dutch point of view where people will jump on a friend's rear rack assuming it will hold, but also because a bike should be honest in it's looks, not pretend to be something it's not. Same with the chaincase, if you make it look like a full chaincase give the chain full protection.

Also on aesthetics they are compromised. I believe now they're chrome at least, but they used to flaunt those ugly whitish grey starfish crancksets, shimano probably. Compare that to the Taurus Corinto or Umberto, the crancks and the pedals are shaped for the eye too. Maybe it will fall apart on you, I don't know the brands, but at least they've made the entire bike with all it's parts elegant. Saw a 50's Umberto with a horsehair mudguard, shame they don't sell that accessory anymore.

There are also pastoorfietsen with a horizontal top tube, which I find much prettier. But they are very upright because of that geometry. Actually the name pastoorfiets isn't entirely correct. It translates as parson bike and because of a parson's clothes it's a step through reinforced for tall males, usually crossframes with lower tubing. These crossframes you can't really step through were very fashionable in the 30's, for tall bikes but also just because they were something different and weight was never an issue in a country with much more wind than hills.

Calio

Thank you for all your help my friend! I think you've helped me find what I need. I will buy two bikes. The Umberto Dei & a Workcycles Pastoorsfiets (I like how "weird" it is haha), it will be very useful I think to have two bikes in case one needs to be repaired. Also, the Umberto Dei is pretty quick & the workcycles seems like it could haul more, so it'd be nice to have vehicles that compliment each other. As far as the rack, I'd probably get a frame mounted rack for the workcycles & then the beautiful popal one for the Umberto Dei, (although there could be some problems with the rack compatability as it is my understanding that the Umberto Dei's rod brakes are proprietary, although I will consult with a local expert for advice on the topic) Many thanks again!

tyrion

A Rivendell Clem Smith Jr. or Sam Hillborne might not be traditional roadsters, but they have a kind of classic inspiration and character and would make good utility bikes.

Calio

Rivendells are beautiful bikes. Maybe I could build one in the style of a traditional roadster. (Dutch style handlebars, chaincase, racks etc.) However I would likely encounter a number of problems with the unique geometry those bikes are built with. Also, from an aesthetic perspective, I really love bikes with horizontal top tubes.

I think Rivendell is a fantastic option for purchasing a touring bike in the future.

Stadjer

No problem. If you like weird you might want to check the Azor IFL frame. I believe I saw a Umberto or Taurus with a front rack, and if I remember correctly it's mounts between the fender and the forkhead, but seemed split to go around the brakerods. There is no real problem between rods and racks, it's just that most racks aren't designed with rod brakes in mind.

May I ask why you skipped the Taurus? I believe it's even more elegant with more attention to detail than the Umberto.

Calio

That azor is really quite funny looking lol. You know what? I like the Taurus too, I'm thinking it would be great in a grey color with chrome lugs, cream tires, honey brooks saddle & accents as well as a 5 speed hub. Hmmm, I haven't made the purchase yet...