Help With Raleigh Frame ID Please
10-21-19, 10:08 AM
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Help With Raleigh Frame ID Please
Yesterday I was given a Raleigh that was an early 80s repaint. The frame is a very light sport touring with a TA 3-arm crankset, and a mix of various other parts (nice stuff). If the frame is a 531 I’d rather try to restore or trade, but if it is a lower end offering it will be parted.
Nice lugwork and attention to weight saving seemed to be the theme. Here are some pics.
Nice lugwork and attention to weight saving seemed to be the theme. Here are some pics.
10-21-19, 10:28 AM
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I'd guess Competition with the crank you mentioned, probably butted main tubes Reynolds. They became full 531 later as the Competition GS, I believe.
10-21-19, 10:45 AM
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You do not mention the dropouts.
From what can be seen in photos suspect Gran Prix model.
Is shell width 68mm or is it 71mm?
Lug pattern is BOCAMA 80 series/II.
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You do not mention the dropouts.
From what can be seen in photos suspect Gran Prix model.
Is shell width 68mm or is it 71mm?
Lug pattern is BOCAMA 80 series/II.
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10-21-19, 12:14 PM
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10-21-19, 12:16 PM
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10-21-19, 12:18 PM
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Ditto to Grand Prix or Record. Serial #s on those models are pretty useless for identifying. Look to lugs, seat stay treatment, dropouts.
10-21-19, 01:20 PM
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Thank you for the additional information and photos.
No word as yet on shell width.
71mm would equal Gran Prix.
For a Reynolds tubing model we would expect to see 68mm.
"Usually" Gran Prix has serial on left dropout. Possible that number on shell is from licensing agency. Do not wish to assert this. Mention it only as a possibility.
None of the images show headset; is it the Raleigh -TDC? If you unthread locknut you could check to see if thread 24 or 26 without disassembling.
Expecting 71mm shell and 26 thread steerer...
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Thank you for the additional information and photos.
No word as yet on shell width.
71mm would equal Gran Prix.
For a Reynolds tubing model we would expect to see 68mm.
"Usually" Gran Prix has serial on left dropout. Possible that number on shell is from licensing agency. Do not wish to assert this. Mention it only as a possibility.
None of the images show headset; is it the Raleigh -TDC? If you unthread locknut you could check to see if thread 24 or 26 without disassembling.
Expecting 71mm shell and 26 thread steerer...
-----
10-21-19, 01:31 PM
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Was there a measurable seat post with this bike? That would indicate a lot.
Despite the crankset, it is NOT a Competition - those pretty much all came with forged ends. I doubt it is a Gran(d) Sport, because every stamped dropout GS I have ever seen used short point Bocama Professional lugs. There WERE some Super Courses in the anniversary headbadge era that used Bocama lugs, but those were Model 14/II, not the 80/II that Juvela has identified on this specimen.
Seatpost check might illustrate a lot. If it's butted 531, it'll be 27.2 mm; plain gauge as used in the Super Course, 26.4 mm or so; and good ol' Raleigh 2030/Tru-Wel "gaspipe," 25.4 mm-ish.
Despite the crankset, it is NOT a Competition - those pretty much all came with forged ends. I doubt it is a Gran(d) Sport, because every stamped dropout GS I have ever seen used short point Bocama Professional lugs. There WERE some Super Courses in the anniversary headbadge era that used Bocama lugs, but those were Model 14/II, not the 80/II that Juvela has identified on this specimen.
Seatpost check might illustrate a lot. If it's butted 531, it'll be 27.2 mm; plain gauge as used in the Super Course, 26.4 mm or so; and good ol' Raleigh 2030/Tru-Wel "gaspipe," 25.4 mm-ish.
10-21-19, 01:38 PM
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The re-painter deserves a dope slap stooges style for not taking 30 seconds to mask the head-badge but for free what are ya gonna do 
the claw RD would indicated lower to mid range.....
the claw RD would indicated lower to mid range.....
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10-21-19, 02:23 PM
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The re-painter deserves a dope slap stooges style for not taking 30 seconds to mask the head-badge but for free what are ya gonna do the claw RD would indicated lower to mid range.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJGrlUXCZzc
the claw RD would indicated lower to mid range.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJGrlUXCZzc
10-21-19, 02:28 PM
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-----
Thank you for the additional information and photos.
No word as yet on shell width.
71mm would equal Gran Prix.
For a Reynolds tubing model we would expect to see 68mm.
"Usually" Gran Prix has serial on left dropout. Possible that number on shell is from licensing agency. Do not wish to assert this. Mention it only as a possibility.
None of the images show headset; is it the Raleigh -TDC? If you unthread locknut you could check to see if thread 24 or 26 without disassembling.
Expecting 71mm shell and 26 thread steerer...
-----
Thank you for the additional information and photos.
No word as yet on shell width.
71mm would equal Gran Prix.
For a Reynolds tubing model we would expect to see 68mm.
"Usually" Gran Prix has serial on left dropout. Possible that number on shell is from licensing agency. Do not wish to assert this. Mention it only as a possibility.
None of the images show headset; is it the Raleigh -TDC? If you unthread locknut you could check to see if thread 24 or 26 without disassembling.
Expecting 71mm shell and 26 thread steerer...
-----
10-21-19, 02:31 PM
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Was there a measurable seat post with this bike? That would indicate a lot.
Despite the crankset, it is NOT a Competition - those pretty much all came with forged ends. I doubt it is a Gran(d) Sport, because every stamped dropout GS I have ever seen used short point Bocama Professional lugs. There WERE some Super Courses in the anniversary headbadge era that used Bocama lugs, but those were Model 14/II, not the 80/II that Juvela has identified on this specimen.
Seatpost check might illustrate a lot. If it's butted 531, it'll be 27.2 mm; plain gauge as used in the Super Course, 26.4 mm or so; and good ol' Raleigh 2030/Tru-Wel "gaspipe," 25.4 mm-ish.
Despite the crankset, it is NOT a Competition - those pretty much all came with forged ends. I doubt it is a Gran(d) Sport, because every stamped dropout GS I have ever seen used short point Bocama Professional lugs. There WERE some Super Courses in the anniversary headbadge era that used Bocama lugs, but those were Model 14/II, not the 80/II that Juvela has identified on this specimen.
Seatpost check might illustrate a lot. If it's butted 531, it'll be 27.2 mm; plain gauge as used in the Super Course, 26.4 mm or so; and good ol' Raleigh 2030/Tru-Wel "gaspipe," 25.4 mm-ish.
10-21-19, 02:31 PM
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Were the Dutch Gazelle-produced Raleigh Grand Prix bikes built to Nottingham/71 mm BB/26 tpi headset or to conventional British 68 mm BB/24 tpi standard? The headbadge of this specimen has blank lines where "Nottingham England" would normally be below the heron.
10-21-19, 02:39 PM
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recall machines of this era as coming through with serial on lateral face of NDS dropout.
they are usually put in rather shallowly and might be easily covered by the paint.
if you do not mind disturbing the exquisite paint scheme you could make exploration thither...
wrt Tange HS - someone evidently ran a 24 set on to a 26 steerer. if cycle "fortunate" maybe they ran a 24 die over it first...
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recall machines of this era as coming through with serial on lateral face of NDS dropout.
they are usually put in rather shallowly and might be easily covered by the paint.
if you do not mind disturbing the exquisite paint scheme you could make exploration thither...
wrt Tange HS - someone evidently ran a 24 set on to a 26 steerer. if cycle "fortunate" maybe they ran a 24 die over it first...
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10-21-19, 02:43 PM
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a most excellent query!
have had one or two of the Dutch GP's come through me workshop but it was more than forty years back and can no recall.
there were also the ones produced in Eire,,,IIRC.
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EDIT -
upon reflection can recall repacking the HS & BB on a Gazelle built GP. Pattern of fittings resembled British ones but cannot recall thread or shell width.
come to think of it, may have one frame yet hanging in me racks... if it is the one am thinking of it is in original livery of dark red flambouyant with black panels and gold lining. 23 /1/2" size, nominal.
am away from me velo junque this day but will get back there tomorrow evening and can check...
a Gazelle origin might not only explain headplate, threading & shell width but serial placement and format as well...
Raleigh experts please correct me if am wrong, but if I recall correctly Gazelle reportedly produced only the Gran Prix model so a Dutch origin could verify model also...
rustystrings61 am so glad that at least one participant in this discussion has his bio-turing-device powered up!
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Last edited by juvela; 10-21-19 at 04:20 PM. Reason: addition
10-26-19, 01:13 PM
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Checked me reliquarium and alas me Nederlander Gran Prix hath flown the coop.
Have noticed the once one's N reaches a certain magnitude is is possible to divest of an item and fail to remove it from ye olde mental inventory. Of course, being of advanced annuation in this regard makes the error more likely -
Here is a forum post on a nearly all original example dated by its finder to 1972. Reportedly, the Gazelle built Raleighs were done from 1971 to 1974.
https://www.bikeforums.net/7773993-post661.html
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Checked me reliquarium and alas me Nederlander Gran Prix hath flown the coop.
Have noticed the once one's N reaches a certain magnitude is is possible to divest of an item and fail to remove it from ye olde mental inventory. Of course, being of advanced annuation in this regard makes the error more likely -
Here is a forum post on a nearly all original example dated by its finder to 1972. Reportedly, the Gazelle built Raleighs were done from 1971 to 1974.
https://www.bikeforums.net/7773993-post661.html
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10-26-19, 03:08 PM
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Likely a Gazelle built Grand Prix, like mine. The additional dropout serial number was only in 1973 so far as my research has shown...so the lack of it doesn’t rule out a Grand Prix. Who paints over the head badge??? 
10-26-19, 03:19 PM
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You guys are awesome!
