joejack951

I went for a bike ride today but didn't ride the Chinabomb. I needed some light exercise and having run 43 miles in the past 6 days, my knees needed a break. So I went for an easy spin on my Pedal Force stopping by my friend's workplace to grab a Bluetooth module (wife wants to try Rouvy/Zwift) then over to the bank. Winds were 18mph sustained with gusts in the 30s. The 40mm rims currently on the Chinabomb are not all that great in winds like that. The shallow aluminum rims on the PF felt virtually unaffected in comparison. I'm looking forward to having these new shallow rims built up even more now.

joejack951

Rims are in and weigh exactly what Farsports quoted! Once I get my hands on cleanly threaded nipples I'll be able to start build. The supplied nipples stink and won't fully thread onto a spoke by hand. Must have been anodized for too long or something. Hopefully Farsports can quickly sort this out for me or I'll just buy new aluminum nipples locally.

joejack951

To amend my post above, it turns out that I received Sapim Secure Lock nipples (Secure Lock nipples | Sapim). I can’t be the first person confused by these, or I might be but I think I have a reasonable excuse for it (didn’t ask for them so didn’t expect this feature). Onward with the build.

Maelochs

The drama builds and builds ....

joejack951

Lest you become bored with my one-sided conversation I have going on, do know that the first production run of JJBP Tubestuffers (name subject to change) is in the works as well. And the third production run of HY/RD short pull conversion arms.

Maelochs

I actually appreciate the updates .... can't wait to hear what you design next.

joejack951

A lot going on at the joejack951 house lately (mainly finally finding a new house to move to that fits all four of us and our frequent visitors) which means my wheel build project has been put on hold.

But...I did receive a surprise on my doorstep today. Tubestuffers (real name TBD)! So...quick show of hands for some guinea pigs before I roll these out. I made 24mm and 23.5mm versions for now but plan to expand the line as deemed necessary. The insert will ship with everything needed to prep and (permanently!) install into your steerer tube plus a plug for the unused threads. Pics will follow soon.

joejack951

So who has:
1. a bike with a carbon fiber fork
2. a ruler
3. a Post-It note or similarly small square-cut piece of paper (~3" long x 1" wide (76mm x 25mm) works nicely)
4. the willingness to try a measurement method for me in exchange for a Tubestuffer

The 'method' is to form the small piece of paper into a tube, insert said tube into the steerer of the fork, mark the overlap, and then measure that distance with the paper laid flat using the ruler. The idea being that any change in diameter is multiplied by 3-ish (3.14159 etc.) so even without accurate calipers someone ought to be able to tell if their steerer tube measures 23.5mm or 23.75mm or 24mm, etc. by using that flat measurement divided by 3.14159.

Anyone?

Maelochs

Ugh .... physics, math, mechanics ... don't we have people like that guy JoeJack to do this kind of work for us?

Interesting problem .... but I might attack it .... but since few of my bikes have non-proprietary forks ......

himespau 

I'm assuming you want a threadless fork? And you want the steerer to be CF? The only carbon fork I have is threaded with a steel steerer.

joejack951

1 1/8" threadless, carbon steerers only. Sorry for not being more specific.

I do have something else that might interest you, though. Any chance you have (with an adapter) or would like to use a modern 1 1/8" threadless stem on that bike with the threaded steel steerer?

joejack951

I wish I could somehow measure steerer tubes across the internet. Until then, get out your paper and ruler, please. If you don't want to fully install the insert, I get it. But maybe you'd humor me, measure your steerer then check with an insert to see how accurate that measurement was. You can keep it or send it back. It will give me some confidence moving forward at least. I know the part works. I am not sure that I can count on people to assess their own forks with basic measuring tools.

superdex

I"m in.

I'll also just measure a few times with just paper and pencil and see how close it is (I have some calipers to verify)

himespau 

That's what I figured. I just didn't want to be ignoring you if I was the one weirdo that used the very specific, not so common thing you might have wanted. I'm currently not looking to swap stems as that would require a full retaping and I have a complete teardown and rebuild of that bike due as soon as I get around to building up new wheels for it. I've been putting that off and am too lazy to do any other work on the bike knowing that it's due for a major job.

joejack951

Awesome! I'd love to see the difference between your caliper and paper measurements. I was within 0.05mm which could have just been dumb luck but all I'm looking for is +/-0.25mm accuracy so I have hope. If you don't mind, measure first and report back that way I know which kit to send you. I have two sizes currently, hopefully one fits.

Maelochs

I will promise to probably do this .... and do you make an adapter for threaded/threadless?

joejack951

Thanks, probably.

I like to think of it more as a 'conversion' than an adapter. Still (slowly, make that glacially) rolling this one out but here's a preview (apologies for crappy pic):



This is the product (pic needs further cleanup and there is a silver version):



The product is a full cartridge bearing replacement headset, which after installation, leaves you with a 1 1/8" threadless tube for your modern stem. The tube can be easily trimmed, like a standard threadless steerer, to the desired height and used with or without spacers (yes, I have custom matching spacers, too, with o-rings on the ID to keep them from rattling as they don't see any preload like a traditional threadless system). The 'magic' of the conversion is all hidden from view but is really quite simple, just never done by anyone else as far as I can tell. Adjustment of bearing preload requires only hex keys. I can share details for anyone that deeply curious.

I have a -17° stem to put on the Trek and I did swap the black headset cap for a silver one (customers will be able to do this on an as-requested basis). I'll post better pics once it is all tidied up. I have yellow cable housing and want to put a silver crank on that bike, and maybe hard anodized gray rims, to make it more period-correct.

himespau 

That is amazing. looks a lot classier than a lot of the ones out there.

That would probably look great with one of these: https://velo-orange.com/collections/...nt=53100153543


Assuming the clamp area is tall enough.

What is the required stack height on the threaded part? How does it engage the fork?

That looks like it'd be cool to play around with.

joejack951

Thanks! Aesthetics were the primary goal with ease of adjustment being a distant, but still important, second goal. I feel like I nailed but we'll see what the general public thinks. There is a price to pay for all that, though I don't feel it's out of line with the alternatives when considering the combination of a high quality headset and adapter. And on the topic of the latter, I refer to this as a 'conversion' to further distance it from the multitude of cheap adapters that don't offer any improvements other than yielding the ability to use a 1 1/8" threadless fork.

The untrimmed clamp area is 90mm so plenty for that stem. For those wanting the opposite effect, like on my Trek, this conversion headset also allows for a considerably lower stem height than the basic adapters because the headset lock nut is eliminated.

Not sure what you mean by this. The whole headset gets replaced with this conversion. The lower part of the headset could remain stock if you really wanted. The main requirement is that the steerer on the fork needs to be 27-45mm longer than the headtube to accommodate both the stack height of this headset and to not interfere with the internal features (in the case of an overly long steerer). Note that the minimum length is much shorter than what is required to use a standard threaded headset so if you have a not-quite-long-enough-for-your-frame threaded fork laying around you may now be able to use it.

Study this cross-section image closely The upper threaded headset race is attached to the quill. Spinning the quill preloads the headset. Setting the lower wedge by tightening the top cap (with a hex key) locks the quill from turning and also from pulling straight out. No lock nut and big wrenches needed.

himespau 

cool, 90 mm is a lot of room to work with.


That's sort of what I was wondering. I think the headset I use now has a stack height of 38 mm, so I cut the threaded fork to be 38 mm longer than the head tube. Some headsets need a lot more steerer tube to engage than that, and it can be problematic.


I'm not sure I'm visualizing that correctly. I'll have to look more at it later. It is a cool idea. Do you just have the one proof of concept or are you into production?

joejack951

I made 10 initial prototypes, one of which is on my Trek and a few others floating around on friends'/friends' of friends/trusted people's in the industry bikes. After a series of minor revisions, I went ahead and did a small production run of half black/half silver to the ISO standard. I'd like to expand and cover more oddball sizes eventually but this was enough money invested for now. I'm still working out packaging and marketing details but that doesn't mean they aren't for sale to interested parties

himespau 

It's a really cool idea. The bike I would most likely use something like that on is JIS. If I used the bottom part of the headset that's there, I can't remember, would that fit on the top, or are the head tubes different size?

joejack951

I've honestly never seen this comment before but it could save me a lot of effort: JIS One-Inch Threaded Headsets for Bicycles from Harris Cyclery

Sheldon's claim, with which I can't really disagree, is that JIS frames will accept ISO cups basically without issue, given the small 0.2mm diameter difference. Given the loose tolerances of even good quality frames, this could be due to JIS frames typically having oversized headtubes, or it could come down to the ease with which a tube expands by 0.2mm under lots of pressure or both. I'll leave it up to you whether or not you want to use unmodified cups or JIS-specific cups which I can eventually provide (they'll likely just be ISO cups turned by 0.2mm if you want them any time in the next year). I can easily ream a crown race from 26.4mm to 27mm for you so that you can install a fully matching headset.

himespau 

Fully matching headset sounds better. The one I have on there now is fairly low end (as are most JIS options at this point). How much are you planning on asking for your conversions?

joejack951