Going tubeless
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u235, that is SO helpful, and echos my experience with tubeless (MTB only). I have tried Gorilla Tape (both black/duct and clear) and am now getting better success with Kapton, but that tends to wrinkle. So you like Scotch 8898 or 898? Is the only difference there the color?
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I don't hesitate to recommend the VeloTubes stems on Amazon-- I have three pairs of them now, and they're great. The rubber base is bonded just to the outside of the stem, so the inner hole is a consistent diameter. As such, the stems never get clogged with sealant boogers, and they can flow more air so seating tires is easier. Three different lengths, six different colors.
For sealant, I prefer TruckerCo Cream over Stan's. It's a bit cheaper, they include a sealant injector that actually fits on normal Presta stems, and the sealant itself has more suspended solids, so it seems to seal punctures more quickly.
For sealant, I prefer TruckerCo Cream over Stan's. It's a bit cheaper, they include a sealant injector that actually fits on normal Presta stems, and the sealant itself has more suspended solids, so it seems to seal punctures more quickly.
I started with TruckerCo, and I like it fine. Cheaper, and the syringe is quite useful. Now I have homebrew sealant though, it took me maybe $15 to make I think about 2L. The most expensive ingredient is liquid latex mold builder (use a 50% off coupon for Michael's); next time the cost will be less because I'll still have the PG (propylene glycol=cheap RV antifreeze). You could spend a year reading through all this and still be confused. What I made was 2 parts PG, 2 parts distilled water, 2 parts latex, 0.5 parts ammonia, 1 healthy scoop of cornmeal.
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Any tubeless stem will work, I've used Stan's and I've used cheap Chinese stems from Amazon. They are all fine.
For Sealant I don't really like Stan's. When it dries it balls up and you get a big glob of it rolling around inside the tire. I prefer the Bontrager sealant, as it dries it lines the tire and becomes an extra layer of protection.
I'm also experimenting with the new Slime tubeless sealant in one of the MTBs, so far after 2 months I'm pretty happy with it as well.
For Sealant I don't really like Stan's. When it dries it balls up and you get a big glob of it rolling around inside the tire. I prefer the Bontrager sealant, as it dries it lines the tire and becomes an extra layer of protection.
I'm also experimenting with the new Slime tubeless sealant in one of the MTBs, so far after 2 months I'm pretty happy with it as well.
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$30 for a tubeless tire? My rims are tires are already tubeless ready. I saw valve stems are about $16 for two $25 for 32 oz of Bontrager sealent (4 years worth of sealing) and the sealer applicator looks like its $10. So a total of $50 to give it a whirl. My brother in law broke down and bought a compressor because his MTB was a pain to get the tires to seal so I can barrow that if its not working out with a hand pump.
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I would go with the LBS offer to do the tubeless for you if you buy stems, i.e. they throw in the tape and sealant and labor for free.
#32
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u235, that is SO helpful, and echos my experience with tubeless (MTB only). I have tried Gorilla Tape (both black/duct and clear) and am now getting better success with Kapton, but that tends to wrinkle. So you like Scotch 8898 or 898? Is the only difference there the color?
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I'm thinking I'll probably bring a worm kit (I think these are actually named Genuine Innovations G2650 Tubeless Tire Repair Kit : Bike Tubes) and C02 cartridge but no spare. Uber is fine if I can't get the tire back together. I've had worse luck with breaking chains anyway.
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Specialized Sequoia Expert. I was going to get the Elite with 105 groupset and 2x chainring but they took $1000 off to make room for the 2019 edition and I couldn't pass. I actually really like the 1x and SRAM double tap. Best of all is the smooth ride even though my commute takes me over some rough surfaces. All I need now is to figure out how to get folks to look right before they turn right across a bike/walking path... They hydraulic brakes have come in handy for that.
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/sequoia-expert/p/116168
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/sequoia-expert/p/116168
#35
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I don't hesitate to recommend the VeloTubes stems on Amazon-- I have three pairs of them now, and they're great.
#36
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Make sure tire is clean (dirt from old sealant etc.) and use plenty of soapy water as lubricant. Use official rim tape (that is smoother and thinner thanhack tape)
for a ft tire i had to put a 26" inner tube around it to squeeze it to the rim to seal it. 2" hybrid tire was easier.
I can't tell if for my hybrid rolling resistance decreased since for tubeless i used new tires (old ones were not tubeless). The new ones are Schwalbe almotion that are extra low rolling resistance and roll nice... but they may also roll nice with tubes.
I also converted from Presta to Schrader when going tubeless.
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wunderchicken, that bike is hawt! The 1x is definitely the way to go
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I’m commuting tubeless now too. Nothing to report yet.
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Specialized Sequoia Expert. I was going to get the Elite with 105 groupset and 2x chainring but they took $1000 off to make room for the 2019 edition and I couldn't pass. I actually really like the 1x and SRAM double tap. Best of all is the smooth ride even though my commute takes me over some rough surfaces. All I need now is to figure out how to get folks to look right before they turn right across a bike/walking path... They hydraulic brakes have come in handy for that.
All I need now is to figure out how to get folks to look right before they turn right across a bike/walking path... They hydraulic brakes have come in handy for that.
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My Troll is tubeless. I use it for commuting, trail riding and touring. I have no need to browbeat others to go tubeless, but it's worked well for me.
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Don't complain about the weather and cower in fear. It's all good weather. Just different.
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This is the kind of info I’ve been looking for. I’ve been considering going tubeless on my 700x38c commuter, but just haven’t been convinced I’d be any better off than where I’m at now. For now, I’m gonna hang out on the “not worth the trouble” side of this one. I’ll be happy to go tubeless when it’s more like motorcycles; mount, inflate, done.
-Kedosto
(Specialized Infinity Armadillos with Specialized AirLock tubes)
#42
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thank you, Thank You, THANK YOU!!!
This is the kind of info I’ve been looking for. I’ve been considering going tubeless on my 700x38c commuter, but just haven’t been convinced I’d be any better off than where I’m at now. For now, I’m gonna hang out on the “not worth the trouble” side of this one. I’ll be happy to go tubeless when it’s more like motorcycles; mount, inflate, done.
-Kedosto
(Specialized Infinity Armadillos with Specialized AirLock tubes)
Tubes are trouble-free as long as you don't get flats. tubeless is kind of easy to set up with proper material, but you have to re-inject some sealant every few months. Not a big deal to me compared to having flats in the middle of a ride (with the night approaching and 30 miles to go home)
#43
GATC
I have a love/hate relationship with TL. When it works, it is great, when it doesn't, it sucks. Tubeless will reduce flats, even large slices can be fixed with plugs and you can keep going. If that doesnt work, toss a tube in like you would have had to do anyway if you were tubed and be on your way. All positive.
The problem is if and when you have to break the bead for any reason and want to return to TL.. Things get a little hectic. It is almost easier to start over if any one of a number of things happen when you pull the tire off. I'm sure many people pop beads, do what they need to do, pop it back in, air up and roll for months. I've done that to but far less often than dealing with something.
- The tape will undoubtedly have sealant under it in spots slowly working its way to the spoke hole and it will never restick to the rim. I've found starting over and doing a retape is easier then messing with it
- The tire and ultra sticky dry latex layer on the bead can stick and get caught on the tape pulling it up. Making your tape narrower away from the bead helps that but that also causes other potential problems. Starting over and doing a retape is easier then messing with it
- The tire can have an uneven buildup of dried latex around the perimeter of the bead and/or the rim (depending on what ripped first as you dismount the tire) causing uneven gaps in the bead seal when remounting. Assuming none of the first two happened where a retape is required, at least you should clean up and peel off the dried sealant from the tire and/or rim to increase your chances of getting a better reseal.
Annoyances to consider but part of the game.
- A tube put in a tire that was previous tubeless will cause the tube to strongly adhere to the tire regardless of how much you clean out the old sealant. It can be pulled off with some force and does not seem to cause any problems.
- A tire with sealant on the bead will be harder to mount later, the tire will grab better and make your three handed manipulation to get it on harder then it was the first time you did it with no sealant yet. This MIGHT make your converting back to tubed in an emergency or routine slightly harder or damn near impossible. Obviously different tire/rim combos play a bigger role in fit but a tire that was once tubeless with latex around the bead would never be easier to mount, only equal or often harder to. Use of excessive soap and water I never thought was a good idea on TL setup. That tire is not only air tight, it will be water tight. That soapy water stays in there and can work its way under your tape leading to the problems listed above and possible the soap could break down the bound of the sealant? It certainly won't help it. Maybe in the big scheme of things some soap and water is negligible.
For me, breaking the bead to fix something happens to often for my liking. Twice in the past two months I've had to pop the bead and patch the inside of slits that the sealant would seal but at random times would blow through and possibly reseal again . Plugs got me "home" but the plug is not a permanent solution. Unlike a cars radial tire with steel cords to grab the plug, a bike tire does not have that, If you ever tried to seal a bias ply trailer tire with one of those plugs, you see immediately why they don't work for that either as a long term fix. That plug WILL eventually come out, move around or possibly be a source of a small slow leak. Bike tire slits seem to expand slightly over time as well. Long story short. Sealant and plugs are short term fixes for most slits and cuts. TL does not mean you won't be "patching" holes any more, you'll just be doing some later in a different way hopefully in the comfort of your home. For lower pressure MTB tires with sturdier construction and knobs to protect the plug you'll have much better luck. I have far less problems with TL on my MTB tires run at 25-35 then I have on my gravel bike run at 40-65. In the end, TL is not the ultimate golden ticket some people claim it is, it has many advantages but also some drawbacks. I will forever and always use TL regardless of any negatives on my MTB. On my gravel bike.. I go back and forth. In fact my front now is still tubeless, my rear is tubed. Seeing the difference in the two tires types I have I imagine a narrower road tire with more pressure would be that much worse. These are just my experiences, YMMV.
My personal experience. I've only used regular Stans sealant. For tape I've used Gorilla tape (IMO sucked), Stans tape, and more recently a combination of the much cheaper Scotch 8898 and 898. The fact that Scotch tape is so cheap, retaping if needed and starting over is not expensive, just a PITA. Patching a tube on the side of the road is a PITA too though.
The problem is if and when you have to break the bead for any reason and want to return to TL.. Things get a little hectic. It is almost easier to start over if any one of a number of things happen when you pull the tire off. I'm sure many people pop beads, do what they need to do, pop it back in, air up and roll for months. I've done that to but far less often than dealing with something.
- The tape will undoubtedly have sealant under it in spots slowly working its way to the spoke hole and it will never restick to the rim. I've found starting over and doing a retape is easier then messing with it
- The tire and ultra sticky dry latex layer on the bead can stick and get caught on the tape pulling it up. Making your tape narrower away from the bead helps that but that also causes other potential problems. Starting over and doing a retape is easier then messing with it
- The tire can have an uneven buildup of dried latex around the perimeter of the bead and/or the rim (depending on what ripped first as you dismount the tire) causing uneven gaps in the bead seal when remounting. Assuming none of the first two happened where a retape is required, at least you should clean up and peel off the dried sealant from the tire and/or rim to increase your chances of getting a better reseal.
Annoyances to consider but part of the game.
- A tube put in a tire that was previous tubeless will cause the tube to strongly adhere to the tire regardless of how much you clean out the old sealant. It can be pulled off with some force and does not seem to cause any problems.
- A tire with sealant on the bead will be harder to mount later, the tire will grab better and make your three handed manipulation to get it on harder then it was the first time you did it with no sealant yet. This MIGHT make your converting back to tubed in an emergency or routine slightly harder or damn near impossible. Obviously different tire/rim combos play a bigger role in fit but a tire that was once tubeless with latex around the bead would never be easier to mount, only equal or often harder to. Use of excessive soap and water I never thought was a good idea on TL setup. That tire is not only air tight, it will be water tight. That soapy water stays in there and can work its way under your tape leading to the problems listed above and possible the soap could break down the bound of the sealant? It certainly won't help it. Maybe in the big scheme of things some soap and water is negligible.
For me, breaking the bead to fix something happens to often for my liking. Twice in the past two months I've had to pop the bead and patch the inside of slits that the sealant would seal but at random times would blow through and possibly reseal again . Plugs got me "home" but the plug is not a permanent solution. Unlike a cars radial tire with steel cords to grab the plug, a bike tire does not have that, If you ever tried to seal a bias ply trailer tire with one of those plugs, you see immediately why they don't work for that either as a long term fix. That plug WILL eventually come out, move around or possibly be a source of a small slow leak. Bike tire slits seem to expand slightly over time as well. Long story short. Sealant and plugs are short term fixes for most slits and cuts. TL does not mean you won't be "patching" holes any more, you'll just be doing some later in a different way hopefully in the comfort of your home. For lower pressure MTB tires with sturdier construction and knobs to protect the plug you'll have much better luck. I have far less problems with TL on my MTB tires run at 25-35 then I have on my gravel bike run at 40-65. In the end, TL is not the ultimate golden ticket some people claim it is, it has many advantages but also some drawbacks. I will forever and always use TL regardless of any negatives on my MTB. On my gravel bike.. I go back and forth. In fact my front now is still tubeless, my rear is tubed. Seeing the difference in the two tires types I have I imagine a narrower road tire with more pressure would be that much worse. These are just my experiences, YMMV.
My personal experience. I've only used regular Stans sealant. For tape I've used Gorilla tape (IMO sucked), Stans tape, and more recently a combination of the much cheaper Scotch 8898 and 898. The fact that Scotch tape is so cheap, retaping if needed and starting over is not expensive, just a PITA. Patching a tube on the side of the road is a PITA too though.
I had one wipeout due to rear wheel burping that was bad (tire came off, tangled in drivetrain, down I went, sprained knee). Then 2 weeks ago I had another crash that did not have such a clear burp but at the end of it the front tire was off, so I don't know if that caused my faceplant or happened during it.
Anyway, when it works, road tubeless is great but I don't want to have a 3rd accident like those other 2 (which were 5 years apart, so enough time lapsed to get pretty comfortable).
#44
Non omnino gravis
Based solely on the number of goatheads I physically pulled out of my tires mid-ride yesterday, during that 75 miles I would have recorded no less than 3 flats. All three bubbled sealant for a moment then stopped. The front had just one removed (which doesn't count any thorns that broke off in the tire) but only lost 2psi overnight. The rear had 2 monster thorns removed, and lost about 8psi in 24 hours.
Out here, tubeless is only a choice if the other option is "fix a flat every single ride."
Out here, tubeless is only a choice if the other option is "fix a flat every single ride."
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One thing I would like to note from my “tubeless experience “ is that it works a lot better when you have dedicated compatible components. My first time around I had a tubeless rim but a non-tubeless tire and a Gorilla tape rim strip and a valve cut from a tube. This time it’s all WTB brand and working great.
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I'm not getting a lot of flats and the whole "if it works" vibe I'm getting + the weekly pressure checks + every 4 months reloading sealant sounds like more trouble than it's worth.On the rare occasion I get a flat, the $6 spare tire I'm carrying is more reassuring because I've dealt with that before.
#47
GATC
If you're not getting flats with your current setup, definitely stick with it.
This puncture is staying sealed so far. At least, when it's parked, and I hear it spring a leak, I can spin the wheel and it will reseal. And/or I can just hold a finger over it until the sealant globs it shut.
But I am still interpreting this tire as being on its last leg.
This puncture is staying sealed so far. At least, when it's parked, and I hear it spring a leak, I can spin the wheel and it will reseal. And/or I can just hold a finger over it until the sealant globs it shut.
But I am still interpreting this tire as being on its last leg.
#48
Senior Member
If you're not getting flats with your current setup, definitely stick with it.
This puncture is staying sealed so far. At least, when it's parked, and I hear it spring a leak, I can spin the wheel and it will reseal. And/or I can just hold a finger over it until the sealant globs it shut.
But I am still interpreting this tire as being on its last leg.
This puncture is staying sealed so far. At least, when it's parked, and I hear it spring a leak, I can spin the wheel and it will reseal. And/or I can just hold a finger over it until the sealant globs it shut.
But I am still interpreting this tire as being on its last leg.
#49
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Saved by my tubeless the other day.
Noticed at home that my tire was a little low. I pumped it up, but then thought to check the tire. Yep - large construction size staple in the tire. I pulled it out out rotated the tire down so the sealant pooled there and voila, the tire was fixed. Tubeless had gotten me home and I didn't even know I had picked up a large staple. Win for tubeless.
Definately. Its like a high maintenance girlfriend - its not for everyone. LOL.
I've got a dozen bikes of every type. I figured out quickly I can't do tubless on everything. Mountain bike and my commuter/gravel-grinder get the tubeless treatment.
Like said above, it works great when everything is matched up. But there are no standards, so mix and match is done at your own risk.
Noticed at home that my tire was a little low. I pumped it up, but then thought to check the tire. Yep - large construction size staple in the tire. I pulled it out out rotated the tire down so the sealant pooled there and voila, the tire was fixed. Tubeless had gotten me home and I didn't even know I had picked up a large staple. Win for tubeless.
I'm not getting a lot of flats and the whole "if it works" vibe I'm getting + the weekly pressure checks + every 4 months reloading sealant sounds like more trouble than it's worth.On the rare occasion I get a flat, the $6 spare tire I'm carrying is more reassuring because I've dealt with that before.
I've got a dozen bikes of every type. I figured out quickly I can't do tubless on everything. Mountain bike and my commuter/gravel-grinder get the tubeless treatment.
Like said above, it works great when everything is matched up. But there are no standards, so mix and match is done at your own risk.
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It’s not true that there are no standards. Rather a few companies have proprietary standards, but most of them if they say “tubeless ready” are using the Mavic UST bead.
In addition to the bead and sealant and tape there are a few more features that make a true tubeless tire. The companies all have their own trademark for these but essentially they are tougher sidewalls and a thin layer of soft rubber inside to help the sealant do its job.
In addition to the bead and sealant and tape there are a few more features that make a true tubeless tire. The companies all have their own trademark for these but essentially they are tougher sidewalls and a thin layer of soft rubber inside to help the sealant do its job.