doctor j

Patch'em

Johnny Mullet

New tube = $5.00 Labor already done when installed and you are back on the road. Running 700c or 27" tires and getting a puncture almost requires superhuman precision to patch one of these skinny tubes even if it's nowhere near a seam or the valve. I tried patching tubes 3 different times and failed everytime. I spent more on patch kits and time trying to fix a split (90% of flats are from a spit tube) than just replacing it. I feel that my 1600 miles last year and 1100 miles the year before of bike riding can justify the waste of a few tubes. Just saying.

Garfield Cat

I did not go through all the responses, but was wondering what is the proper way to discard tires and tubes. Are they the same or do tires go with auto tires and tubes somewhere else?

Anybody here in the recycle business?

RobbieTunes

I feel your pain, Johnny. Perhaps it's a Huffy thing, but I can relate. I'm a "pincher." As a roadie, I can never find patches narrow enough for my tubes, and one of the edges always seems to peel up. My failure rate at patching is about 50%. I have had about 25% failure rate on new cheap tubes (< $5), so I have this approach:

1-I buy my tubes when they are on sale, like 4 for the price of 3, 5 for the price of 4, or just plain on sale, but I try to get "better" tubes.
2-I often get patch kits free from eBay sellers, etc. I use those exclusively. I'm done buying patches. I carry Scabs in my wedge bags.
3-I scrape and then sand the best I can, but no more than 3-4 minutes per tube, apply the patch, and wait overnight.
4-I test them the next day. If they hold, they go in a wedge bag, but not on a new build. If they fail, they get tossed.
5-I use a non-black valve cap on all patched tubes, so I can tell at a glance if the bike already has a patched tube.
6-Nothing gets patched twice. I used to be superstitious and patch them repeatedly, out of loyalty for their service. No more.
7-I only patch once or twice a year. A six of Yuengling, Pandora on Texas Guiitars, and I patch until they're done, and pass out.
8-When I trade parts, if they have nothing I need, I ask for new tubes.

My success rate at mounting and not pinching, indoors, with time, is about 99%. My success rate on the side of the road, about 50%.
Therefore, I prefer to be on either a new tube or a once-patched tube that held up overnight.

I've been on rides with guys who patched on the side of the road, didn't pull the wheel off, just pulled the tube out enough to get to it.
It was pretty impressive, until we had to do it again. And again.

My time is worth nothing, but I'd prefer not to spend it patching. When I do, it's more "therapy" than having to do it. So yeah, I can relate.

wphamilton

If I have a tube that seems like it's getting too many flats or patches fail after a year or two I figure that something's wrong with the tube and replace it (has to be the tube, it couldn't be me ) I'm riding on tubes with five or six patches though, and haven't tossed a tube in several years.

I don't throw them away - I cut up old tubes and use them for elastic strips. Affix heavy duty velcro to the ends for example and that comes in handy.

chasm54

Ah, so the issue is one of incompetence. Patching 23mm tubes is simple and quick. Can't remember ever having a patch fail. And if 90% of your flats are from a split tube, you're probably installing them wrong.

cyccommute 

"New tube =$5" (really closer to $7 but I won't quibble). Four tubes =$20. Ten tubes =$50. 20 tubes = $100 and a huge pile of tubes. I live were goatheads are ubiquitous. It's not uncommon for me to have 20 flats in a year. It's not impossible...but somewhat uncommon...to have 20 flats (or even far more) on a ride. That's a lot of money down the drain. I'm not about to carry around 20 tubes with me on a ride...I already carry 2 and have been know to carry as many as 6. If I get two flats on a ride, which can be a common occurance, I'd be sunk if I didn't carry a patch kit.

Patching a tube is a simple task that can be taught so that a 10 year old to do it reliably and easily in about 10 minutes. And the only reason it take 10 minutes is because that's how long the glue takes to dry. And that's even on seams. No "superhuman precision" is required.

I don't know where you ride nor how you do it but I find a split in the tube to be a very, very rare event. Almost all the flats I've had and the flats I've taught people to fix have be small point type punctures. The sharp object goes in and comes out and leaves a hole.

Finally, how much you ride per year doesn't make any difference. The 5000 miles I rode last year or the 4500 miles the year before that or the 80,000 miles I've ridden sincee 1988 (I only have records back to then but I've ridden a lot longer) don't justify throwing a tube away when it can be repaired reliably. If nothing else, knowing how to patch a tube and having a patch kit has saved me from some very long walks.

rekmeyata

I'm glad someone pointed that out, I was going to but I get hammered here so much I left this one alone! LOL!!

Really, why is anyone riding a bike who can't repair their own flats? I have helped so many stranded cyclists with flats it's silly, but I don't fix their flats...I show them how it's done, then put it all back together minus the patch and tell them to do it while I watch, and then talk them through the patching process. Sure this can take upwards to an hour but i think it's worth teaching someone how to fix a flat. Of course today's world there is the good ol cell phone and one can simply call their mommies to come rescue their son or daughter but really, why bother someone else like that? Besides by the time your mommy comes to get you you could have had the flat fix and been quite a bit further down the road on your ride!

If you're going to ride a bike and you're mechanically backwards at least learn to fix a flat on the road, it isn't really difficult at all, nor is it scary, nor does it cost much for the tools and patch kit, heck the tools and patch kit will cost you close to what it will cost to have a shop fix the flat just once! You can watch You Tube videos on how to fix a flat and then simply practice practice practice over and over again till you can do it almost in your sleep. Once you learn how to fix a flat you'll be a more confident person on your bike. If for some reason you still can't fix a flat, maybe due to extreme arthritis in your hands (which is this were true I'm not sure how you could grasp the handlebar for hours on end), I recommend not to ride any further from home then you're comfortable with walking back!!!

Now comes the attacks I so readily get around here, and happy to do so!

cyccommute 

There's your main problem. If you use crap patch kits, you'll get crap results. The patch kits that Fleabay sellers give you for free as well as the cheap patch kits you get from Performance, REI and other retailers are inferior products. They use rubber cement for the adhesive which is the wrong adhesive.

Spend just a little bit more and get Rema Tip Top patch kits. The vulcanizing fluid isn't just rubber cement. It's one part of a two part system that contains a chemical that promotes the formation of new rubber when it comes in with the patch, which contains the other part of the two part system. Rather than just depend on the rubber in the in the cement adhering to the patch, the Tip Top's makes new rubber bonds and are more permanent.

I'd say that if you are sanding the tube more than about 30 seconds, you are sanding it too much. With any of the patches but with the Rema in particular, the key to success is the amount of time you let the vulcanizing fluid dry. It usually takes more than a couple of minutes...it depends on how much vulcanizing fluid you use...but the longer you wait to apply the patch, the greater the chance of success. Overnight isn't too long to wait and I've gone as long as 2 weeks...I forgot about a patch job I was working on:roll eyes:


Granted this is overnight is too long for out in the field but that's why I carry extra tubes. I don't patch in the field unless I happen to have one of those bad days.

My patch success rate is in the very high 90s using the above method and Tip Top patches. I can't recall the last time I had a patch fail to stick on the tube and I'm running tubes that have as many as 30 patches on them.

Yes, I do get a lot of flats but not because of the patch job...it's the goatheads.

Cougrrcj

I take at least one spare tube with me when I ride. One when commuting, and two for all-day rides. I don't patch them on-the-spot, but rather when I get home and depending on where the hole is. Two patches on one tube is my limit though.

Shimagnolo

Strangest thing about goatheads: When I moved here 20 years ago, I flatted all four tires on my two bikes in the first two weeks, and it was all road-riding.

Right now I can't remember the last time I picked up a goathead; These days I seem to get flats most often from those tiny wires from worn out steel-belted tires.

Moe Zhoost

My thought too as I read the post. I'd go up to 95% of tube splits are the result of the tire not seating right. Patching a tube takes just a few minutes after you find the leak. Plus, I have never had a patch fail (I use Rema patches and glue)

GP

As I get older I've noticed that my patches are missing the hole more and more.

San Rensho 

Patch. But the major reason is because I exclusively use tubes with smooth valve stems, no threads, because the seal is much better when pumping the tube up to high pressure. No leaks at all with a smooth stem, but fairly fast leak down with threaded stems. But smooth stem valves are harder to find so I would rather patch a smooth stem.

If I had my druthers, then I would just buy smooth stem valve tubes.

RonH

I'll patch a tube if I'm out riding and don't have a spare tube. If I have a spare tube I toss the punctured tube and continue on my way.

bobbyl1966

Usually i use new inner tubes. I have patch but where is the patch when i put air the inner tube in that spot is more skinny. that is normal in patched inner tubes? Which patches is the best?

bobbyl1966

Usually i use new inner tubes. I have patch but where is the patch when i put air the inner tube in that spot is more skinny. that is normal in patched inner tubes? Which patches is the best?

Gresp15C

Indeed, I've taught two kids to do it, and of course I learned to do it when I was a kid. At my house, the kids do all of their own bike maintenance, plus I involve them in other repair jobs around the house. For kids there's an added benefit, which is that learning one skill teaches them to be more handy in general.

Gresp15C

Now I have to admit that I've never studied the economics in detail. Patching tubes just seems like the right thing to do, and I've always got something that I can do while waiting for the goop to dry.

I carry a tube and a patch kit on each bike. Belt and suspenders. That's always been sufficient for my riding conditions -- no goat head thorns, thank goodness, and no pinch flats. If I change a tube while on the road, I patch the other when when I reach my destination, or at home. I've had success with patching a tube without removing the wheel from the bike, when I knew exactly where the puncture was.

John33702

I patched one on the seam last summer when it was Sunday, the bike shop was closed, and I didn't have a spare tube. It's still going strong. Wouldn't recommend it, though. I now carry a spare just in case.

Last year it was recommended to use heavy duty tubes (for my cruiser). They're a lot thicker and more expensive. After getting a puncture I patched it but didn't put it back on the bike. I don't see how a thicker tube is better than a regular one. If something penetrates the tire and tube, it's going to penetrate a thick tube, too. Perhaps they're more reliable in rough use such as mountain biking.

rekmeyata

Cheap patches and cheap self stick patches like the Scabs and other brands I can't recall now are junk, I only use Park glueless or Specialized Fatboy glueless which I think are relabeled Park patches, 3M use to make glueless patches but I haven't found those for a long time, but either of those 3 are the best glueless patches I've ever used and I've never had one fail...but preparation is the key for these to work well, and they don't work on latex tubes. Back in the day when I use to use glue on patches I only used Rema, but those days are gone and I'll never go back to glue on again. In my tubular days and when I used latex tubes I made my own patches out an of old latex tube and used Pastali rim glue to affix the patch to the tube, but there is a bit more to doing that then mentioned here.

RobbieTunes

Thanks for the advice. Perhaps I'll invest in a kit. I'm tired of new tubes being bad "out of the box."
Yesterday, opened up a new Forte (Performance) light tube. Failed at the stem. I see more and more of that.
First time I've had a Forte tube fail, too.

I also see by the posts that some have found much better glueless patches than others. I'll keep that in mind.

I have found the perfect flat prevention: carry a frame pump. When I do, I don't flat. When I don't, it's gonna happen.

cyccommute 

I get fewer goathead flats while road riding but it does happen. Most of the time, the goatheads on the road have been dragged there by cars or by other cyclists who have picked them up from the side of the road or trail when they stopped and got off the road or trail for some reason. Newly constructed trails and roads have more of them because the plant is a pioneer plant that doesn't compete well with other kinds of plants.

You do know that the Goathead Gods have placed a hit on you now, don't you? Never taunt the Goatheads!

Daniel4

I patch. But I haven't found a way to squeeze all the air out of the tube to carry around as a spare, so I have it hanging around my garage with a brand new tube in my kit. That would tell you I've made the repairs at home.

rex615

Fold it in half and start rolling it from the end opposite the valve. With a Presta valve it is very easy since it stays open. With a Schrader you can either remove the core and then reinstall it or let the air out every so often as needed.