phil_k

I finished a cat5 race in the 15-20 area out of 50... I didn't hang around the race, since I wanted to get out before the roads were closed for the Cat3 race. But I clearly finished and rode through the finish line, past the marshals etc and back to the parking lot and drove home about 15 minutes later. After the race are you supposed to go talk to the officials? Quite a few guys just rode through and back to their cars like I did.
I check results today, and it says DNF.

This is my second race, so I'm not sure if I should have done anything differently (the previous race was chip timed). I checked in on time, I wore the number on the correct side, I don't think I was disqualified, as I didn't do anything dangerous, nor did any of the moto refs speak to me during the race. They did not use chip timing, but this is a reputable race, put on by a college cycling team.

I'm pretty unhappy as you might imagine. I have the strava recording showing I finished in the group. So I plan on sending that to them, but I want to make sure I didn't miss anything.

grolby

If you really care about the result, you stick around till results are posted if possible. You can of course try to get them to alter the results. That's pretty much down to discretion. In the long run, it will be just a Cat 5 race early in your racing days. For now, yes, it's frustrating.

gsteinb

15 minute protest period. Then it's over.

phil_k

sigh, ok, I was afraid of that

carpediemracing 

Technically, 15 minute protest period and you're done.

I understand, it can take a long time to get full results in. However, if you leave, you forfeit the right to "protest a finish" (meaning contest the posted results).

For a new racer, Cat 5, the finish is sort of significant since a race doesn't count until you finish, and you can't upgrade until you get your 10? race finishes. You might get some leeway in changing that DNF to a "DNP" (did not place). However, remember that everyone on the race side of things absolutely has the right to not change it.

Remember that the promoter can't change results willy nilly. They have to have an official correct the results first, then the promoter can update things.

For me, as a promoter (at least I was until 2015, from 1993), I'd want to try to change the result because I'm also a racer. Since I'm not an official I can't do it without getting clearance from one of my officials. They have their lives, they already worked for me all day for basically nothing (say $80-100 for a 12 hour day), they do prep work before and post-race work after, etc etc. Therefore I really hate asking them for corrections/etc, especially when it was the racer at fault (meaning the racer let the 15 minute protest period expire).

I've been racing since 1983, and the protest period was pounded into my head by my club/teammates. Generally speaking I don't care much, if I get 17th or 23rd I really don't care. I do like getting credit for a field finish even if I sat up in the sprint and rolled in 5 or 10 seconds behind everyone else, and I've both gotten and not gotten that credit. When I didn't it's because I didn't care enough to check the results.

I did get 6th one year in a very selective hilly road race. As I'm usually the first rider to get shelled on a hill I got praise on my "strong ride" for more than a year. Each time I did I had to explain that I didn't even finish one lap with the field. I started the race with my sole goal to "lead out" our climber to the base of the climb toward the end of the 10 or 11 mile lap. Once I got our guy to the front and we turned right onto the hill I sat up. I rode to my car, drove home. Obviously I didn't care about my results because I didn't even make one lap in the field. I was probably at home when the race finished a couple/few hours later. Somehow my number got picked for 6th, and the actual 6th place rider didn't care enough to know/protest. The promoter sent me a check and a really nice mug. I promptly returned it.

I once sat up at the bell because I was done. It was a early season crit series (not mine) and I had to beat this one guy (and win) to have a chance at winning the series. I cramped or something so I stopped, watched him win (and wrap up the series), and left, super disappointed in myself. The next week I returned for the final race. Everyone was congratulating me - apparently I'd "won" the prior week. I went to the officials and promoter to point out that I wasn't even racing when the field sprinted. They just shrugged - they couldn't change the results a week later. The guy, Tom, he was actually psyched for the race because it was basically whoever beat the other would win, and he wanted a race. He absolutely annihilated me in the sprint, but I got the place I thought I deserved, second. I ran into him maybe 20 years later and he still talked about that fiasco with a grin.

canuckbelle

As others have said. I stick around until results are posted (which takes 5-15min) and *then* stick around for the protest period. If you care about the results, you have to do that.

phil_k

ugh, while mid-pack-finish is not great (esp in cat5) -- I finished strong -- I had been stuck at the back and unable to get past people because of the centerline rule and lining up in back at the start.
The slight uphill finish was with both lanes, so I was able to average 29mph in the last mile according to gps, and pass 20+ people. I was hoping to see exactly where I ended up.

A very frustrating and expensive learning experience. Hopefully they post some good photos so I can at least see myself finishing in them.

Thank you, I have another race this coming weekend, so I'll get over this. I'll try not to line up at the back, and will stick around afterward, unless I really DNF.

phil_k

The race director emailed me back and said I got 12th place! He said my number was obscured but he recognized my kit when I described it, and myself and a couple other riders were on their "to-contact" list to confirm places.

The guys who are currently listed in 12th - 50th place and will get dropped a placing won't be happy. Next time I'll stick around and make it easier on everyone. Learned my lesson.

jdms mvp

glad it worked out for u!

himespau 

Glad to hear it worked out and you're one race closer to upgrading - that was the important difference between 12th and DNF, right?

phil_k

Yeah, at this point not getting DNF is all that matters. Being listed DFL would be fine, as long as I was listed as having finished. Still glad to see 12 though, I wondered how many people I caught at the end.

@amkJ4JPQ, oh man, looks like there were bigger issues that simply sticking around afterward wouldn't have caught.
The director was very helpful and accommodating though, hopefully he gets that worked out.

carpediemracing 

Great news on your 12th. It sounds like there were problems with the scoring, which is actually somewhat normal to see.

shovelhd

Just FYI, it's generally the responsibility of the race director to be responsible for the results. The Chief Judge signs off on all scoring, both by judges and electronic. Every result sheet that you see will be signed by the Chief Judge. After that, it's usually up to the race director (promoter in smaller races) to post them to USAC, BikeReg, and anywhere else. Once they are signed, and the protest period over, they are the results of record. However, if you nicely contact the race director and explain your situation before they post them, you may be able to get it changed, especially in a situation like yours where there were several "unknown riders" placed in the field. It's a lot more common than people think. So as long as you're not trying to contest 25th place versus 26th or something equally stupid, if you think you finished where you did and the results tell otherwise: first, contact the Chief Judge during the protest period, and second, contact the race director as soon as possible.

79pmooney

Good for you! Back in the dark ages (1977) I finished in the lead group in a very fast 105 mile Cat 1,2,3 race where that group finished under John Howard's previous course record. 25 places were awarded. 24th was the previous year's winner wearing #1 . I finished on his wheel and went up to the scorer's table to tell them who I finished behind. (It was common then to tell the officals the riders immediately ahead and behind you to help them sort out the order.) They told me they weren't taking that info; that htey had it all on film.

Awards were handed out. Place 24 went to rider #1 . And 25 went to the rider behind me! (They only printed the first 10 places or so. I saw the negative of me right where I told them I was. For their error, they gave me two Hutchinson tires. Small consolation, crappy tires.) I have no idea if I every appeared on record as finishing in that group. Would be nice as it was the hardest and fastest I ever rode, by far.

Ben

himespau 

Is it common when there are unknown riders to give the places to the riders you can identify and change it later? Seems like using an unknown as a placeholder until you can identify the rider would create less aggravation than having to slide everyone down later. I'd rather be happily surprised by being moved up than by moving down.

carpediemracing 

When placing riders with obscured or otherwise unreadable numbers I just put no number. Then someone will inevitably show up and say, I think I got about 20th but I'm not on there. I look and their kit matches the missing 22nd place or whatever.

Some of the results of races I promote are missing places even now.

shovelhd

No. The results are the results unless someone complains, then it might be changed after the protest period.

wens

Everybody should go read the rules on obscured or illegible numbers.* Unless they changed it from last year, the official is doing you a favor if they place you.

*I've only seen this interpreted as rider fault, if you're on the far side of the camera in a close sprint and blocked by the other body, I've always seen a placeholder/kit description for places in the money.

himespau 

Yeah, that was the way I interpreted OP. His number was blocked, so they knew he was there but couldn't figure out who (apparently that happened for several people) then they just put the lower person in his place until they could contact all the people and ask them what kit they were wearing rather than putting 12th place as ? team X kit and then filling that in when they figured out who was wearing that kit. Could be I misunderstood though.

topflightpro

At the races we held this year, we had a heck of a time reading numbers on the camera because the angle of the sun was creating a terrible glare. I had to deal with lots of complaints and changes. It was an absolute pain.

In the 4/5 race, which was our biggest event, we ended up only placing the top ten in the 4/5 race and put everyone else as DNP. I got one email from someone complaining that they thought they finished higher among those listed as DNP. It was then that I explained the DNP riders were listed based on their number, so the first guys to register and receive lower numbers were listed higher. It had nothing to do with actual finish order.

phil_k

Yes, that's exactly what happened. I was on the far side of the field from the cameras, and they ended up moving people down rather than putting a placeholder in my spot. If it was top 5 or something, it may have gone differently.

RickDalton

Officially you are supposed to protest the "official" results within 15 minutes of being posted. This does happen though so I would think you can just message the promoter and let them know. I imagine they can give you a placing in stead of a DNF.

EventServices

Taking a different view here. Don't get upset if you feel I'm knocking you. I'm not.

You know you finished. Having it in print somewhere doesn't really mean anything, does it?

If it were a matter of placing in a paying position (either points or cash), then yes, you need to verify it within the 15-minute protest period.
But otherwise, what's the difference between 12th and 15th place? Or 25th and 28th place?
The farther back in the field you go, the less effort other racers are putting forth. In fact, most are just coasting. Or should be.
There's no need to sprint like a mad man for 25th place when the race pays to the top 5. You only risk running into other riders who aren't sprinting.

You're a new rider, so I understand that you want/need the validation of completing the distance with the bunch. But you know you did it. And that's what counts.
Try to get beyond the need to see your name in the standings. I hate to say it, but nobody cares. Nobody is taking roll call to see how you or anyone else did.

I know that's an unpopular stance, but I'm popular for being un.

cmh

ES - In general, you are absolutely correct, but in this specific case the OP just wanted to be in the results as a placing rather than DNF so it would count towards an upgrade to Cat 4.

EventServices

That's what I wondered. In this case, it makes sense, surely.