We're going to yell at you.
11-13-17, 10:38 PM
#2726
Me duelen las nalgas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,516
Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4559 Post(s)
Liked 2,802 Times
in
1,800 Posts
I've ridden with a relatively fast B group a few times since the summer. Nobody yelled at me. In fact a couple of folks hung back to chat with me when I pulled out of the pack to drop back and catch my breath.
I'm a bit disappointed. I have to go elsewhere for my abuse.
I'm a bit disappointed. I have to go elsewhere for my abuse.
11-14-17, 07:35 AM
#2727
Senior Member
I don't know, Abe. And if you read what was happening in this thread, you'd notice that a lot of people who were incensed by my post in the beginning came around to my way of thinking later. Dr. Pete is the best example. He did a complete 180. At some point, the thread became a gallery to watch people who had the same reaction as you did eventually agree with me.
I still remember that ride 11 years later, and I remember the guy who was doing the most damage. We tried to slow down and talk to him and ask him to leave the rotation, but he said it was a public park and that he could do what he wanted. While that's true, you wouldn't simply walk up to someone else picnic area, eat their food, and start kicking their campfire around? But basically, that's what he was doing. So we pulled him off the back and lost him.
As for the others who question, the 30mph comment:
I remember seeing 30 on my Garmin a lot. That's good enough for me. Even if our average was 27, it was still dangerous to have a knucklehead in the line.
I still remember that ride 11 years later, and I remember the guy who was doing the most damage. We tried to slow down and talk to him and ask him to leave the rotation, but he said it was a public park and that he could do what he wanted. While that's true, you wouldn't simply walk up to someone else picnic area, eat their food, and start kicking their campfire around? But basically, that's what he was doing. So we pulled him off the back and lost him.
As for the others who question, the 30mph comment:
I remember seeing 30 on my Garmin a lot. That's good enough for me. Even if our average was 27, it was still dangerous to have a knucklehead in the line.
Regardless. I initially did not take issue with the entirety of your post. Some of your rules had varying degrees of value as tips/best practices in a paceline. My issues were:
The yelling
The physical removal of someone at speed
The comical repeated claim of “we’re not elitist”
11-20-17, 01:17 PM
#2728
Senior Member
Riding in echelon and in a paceline are two different things. I'm not yelling.
I wholeheartedly agree, it does suck when inexperienced riders muck up the works, but as long as we train on public roads, we can't stop them from joining. I come from a time when, if you were on a road bike, you were a racer and you knew what to do. Times are changing. The best bet is to teach them. Some people learn by be yelled at, and some don't respond as well. Good job laying out some guidelines for new guys on this forum, but you need to teach the guys out on the ride. Like it or not, they're part of our community now. The more we fight 'em, the more dangerous it is for all of us.
Don't ever put your hands on anybody over a bike ride.
To you new guys who may be mucking up the works......ask about what you don't understand.
I wholeheartedly agree, it does suck when inexperienced riders muck up the works, but as long as we train on public roads, we can't stop them from joining. I come from a time when, if you were on a road bike, you were a racer and you knew what to do. Times are changing. The best bet is to teach them. Some people learn by be yelled at, and some don't respond as well. Good job laying out some guidelines for new guys on this forum, but you need to teach the guys out on the ride. Like it or not, they're part of our community now. The more we fight 'em, the more dangerous it is for all of us.
Don't ever put your hands on anybody over a bike ride.
To you new guys who may be mucking up the works......ask about what you don't understand.
Last edited by pickettt; 11-20-17 at 01:35 PM.
11-21-17, 08:38 PM
#2729
Announcer
Thread Starter
Nope, not on every ride. I contend that not every ride needs to be instructional. If you jump into a group ride on a Tuesday with a bunch of strangers and find yourself over your head, you can expect to get yelled at. The ride shouldn't have to slow down and give you lessons.
At what point can a group just ride fast without having to give lessons to any new rider that jumps in uninvited?
At what point can a group just ride fast without having to give lessons to any new rider that jumps in uninvited?
11-21-17, 09:33 PM
#2730
Senior Member
Nope, not on every ride. I contend that not every ride needs to be instructional. If you jump into a group ride on a Tuesday with a bunch of strangers and find yourself over your head, you can expect to get yelled at. The ride shouldn't have to slow down and give you lessons.
At what point can a group just ride fast without having to give lessons to any new rider that jumps in uninvited?
At what point can a group just ride fast without having to give lessons to any new rider that jumps in uninvited?
11-21-17, 11:01 PM
#2732
Senior Member
Nope, not on every ride. I contend that not every ride needs to be instructional. If you jump into a group ride on a Tuesday with a bunch of strangers and find yourself over your head, you can expect to get yelled at. The ride shouldn't have to slow down and give you lessons.
At what point can a group just ride fast without having to give lessons to any new rider that jumps in uninvited?
At what point can a group just ride fast without having to give lessons to any new rider that jumps in uninvited?
Don't get me wrong, I've been racing bikes as long as I can remember. Although I said it, I didn't mean you HAVE to do anything to accommodate them. I don't like this new generation of, "I paid my $5000 for a bike and ta da now I'm a cyclist" either. But they're here. You can make it better, or you can make it worse. Furthermore, at the end of the day, public streets are not yours to invite people to. If you don't have an event permit and are on a closed course, you haven't got a leg to stand on. They don't need your permission. So, like I said, make it better or make it worse. Incidentally, on a few occasions, I've almost been crashed out by fast experienced guys whilst they were yelling at Freds. Good luck out there.
Last edited by pickettt; 11-21-17 at 11:05 PM.
11-22-17, 02:17 AM
#2733
Senior Member
01-05-18, 05:29 PM
#2734
Elite Fred
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Posts: 10,945
Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked 42 Times
in
19 Posts
In memory of botto I am giving this a bump.
Happy New Year!
Happy New Year!
01-05-18, 06:47 PM
#2735
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
01-05-18, 08:49 PM
#2736
NYC
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times
in
62 Posts
I always start off with a jersey on, thinking this time it'll be different. Unless it really is a true endurance session, 15 minutes in I have it tossed aside.
01-06-18, 01:23 AM
#2738
Senior Member
03-01-18, 07:34 PM
#2739
I eat carbide.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times
in
560 Posts
In honor of yet another close call of having to hang out with @EventServices this weekend i got to thinking about this thread. Great lessons here. At least early on. 
BTW - ES has yet another book coming out here soon. Worth a look IMHO
BTW - ES has yet another book coming out here soon. Worth a look IMHO
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
03-01-18, 09:08 PM
#2740
So it is
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Westminster, CO
Posts: 21,317
Bikes: Luzerne, 684, Boreas, Wheelhouse, Alize©®, Bayamo, Cayo
Mentioned: 246 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11386 Post(s)
Liked 4,711 Times
in
2,747 Posts
In honor of yet another close call of having to hang out with @EventServices this weekend i got to thinking about this thread. Great lessons here. At least early on.
BTW - ES has yet another book coming out here soon. Worth a look IMHO
BTW - ES has yet another book coming out here soon. Worth a look IMHO
03-02-18, 04:48 AM
#2741
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1096 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Don't get me wrong, I've been racing bikes as long as I can remember. Although I said it, I didn't mean you HAVE to do anything to accommodate them. I don't like this new generation of, "I paid my $5000 for a bike and ta da now I'm a cyclist" either. But they're here. You can make it better, or you can make it worse. Furthermore, at the end of the day, public streets are not yours to invite people to. If you don't have an event permit and are on a closed course, you haven't got a leg to stand on. They don't need your permission. So, like I said, make it better or make it worse. Incidentally, on a few occasions, I've almost been crashed out by fast experienced guys whilst they were yelling at Freds. Good luck out there.
03-02-18, 08:54 AM
#2742
Rubber side down
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Teh Quickie Mart
Posts: 1,769
Bikes: are fun! :-)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 225 Times
in
105 Posts
In honor of yet another close call of having to hang out with @EventServices this weekend i got to thinking about this thread. Great lessons here. At least early on.
BTW - ES has yet another book coming out here soon. Worth a look IMHO
BTW - ES has yet another book coming out here soon. Worth a look IMHO
...And this thread. It still delivers!
03-02-18, 09:05 AM
#2743
Rubber side down
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Teh Quickie Mart
Posts: 1,769
Bikes: are fun! :-)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 225 Times
in
105 Posts
Don't get me wrong, I've been racing bikes as long as I can remember. Although I said it, I didn't mean you HAVE to do anything to accommodate them. I don't like this new generation of, "I paid my $5000 for a bike and ta da now I'm a cyclist" either. But they're here. You can make it better, or you can make it worse. Furthermore, at the end of the day, public streets are not yours to invite people to. If you don't have an event permit and are on a closed course, you haven't got a leg to stand on. They don't need your permission. So, like I said, make it better or make it worse. Incidentally, on a few occasions, I've almost been crashed out by fast experienced guys whilst they were yelling at Freds. Good luck out there.
So, be respectful, get a clue, and don't get butt hurt if you get yelled at. Learn from it--there was probably a legitimate reason for it.
03-02-18, 09:06 AM
#2744
your god hates me
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,587
Bikes: 2016 Richard Sachs, 2010 Carl Strong, 2006 Cannondale Synapse
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1242 Post(s)
Liked 1,271 Times
in
702 Posts
If I don't want strangers to join my group rides I've taken to telling them "sorry, this is a closed ride and my cycling club's insurance policy doesn't allow non-members to participate." Most folks freak out as soon as they hear the word "insurance" and back off. I've never had anybody challenge this and insist the streets are public and that they have a right to ride in my paceline.
I should probably mention that I use this tactic regardless of whether it actually is a club ride or not.
I'll also mention that I tell them this in a calm, quiet voice. No yelling.
...but we're going to. Soon.
03-02-18, 03:18 PM
#2747
Senior Member
Au contraire mon frère, their leg to stand on is their right to yell at you! You do not have a "right" to join them any more than you have a "right" to get in my car...
So, be respectful, get a clue, and don't get butt hurt if you get yelled at. Learn from it--there was probably a legitimate reason for it.
So, be respectful, get a clue, and don't get butt hurt if you get yelled at. Learn from it--there was probably a legitimate reason for it.
Nonsense. If you can't differentiate between your property and public roads, it does no good to have this conversation. That being said, I get it, there are guys I don't like on rides either, but there's still nothing you can rightfully do about it.
03-02-18, 03:19 PM
#2748
Senior Member
If I don't want strangers to join my group rides I've taken to telling them "sorry, this is a closed ride and my cycling club's insurance policy doesn't allow non-members to participate." Most folks freak out as soon as they hear the word "insurance" and back off. I've never had anybody challenge this and insist the streets are public and that they have a right to ride in my paceline.
I should probably mention that I use this tactic regardless of whether it actually is a club ride or not.
I'll also mention that I tell them this in a calm, quiet voice. No yelling.
...but we're going to. Soon.
I should probably mention that I use this tactic regardless of whether it actually is a club ride or not.
I'll also mention that I tell them this in a calm, quiet voice. No yelling.
...but we're going to. Soon.
So your tactic is to hope they believe your misinformation?
03-02-18, 05:02 PM
#2749
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1096 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
See, this is where we cross paths with the "tailgating is unsafe and illegal" contingent. Yes, they have a right to ride in the same road in reasonable proximity, but they don't have a right to wheelsuck or insinuate themselves into a paceline uninvited.
03-02-18, 05:46 PM
#2750
Senior Member
Again, don't get me wrong, there are guys that i do not appreciate being on group rides, but you have no recourse.
