Pauls2805

Hi All

I have decided to restore an old bike I bought 3rd hand. It has Ventura Avening on the frame. It had a lot of mismatched parts or bits missing. I'm in the process of stripping everything off so I can sand the frames before priming and repainting. I am led to believe via research on google that the model of bike should be a 21 speed set up.

I have found that on the rear wheel is a 5 speed freewheel made by Maillard. The dropouts are about 131mm apart. What I would like to know is if I can replace the freewheel with a 7 speed freewheel, without causing any issues to the bike frame or dropouts? Also, would I need to replace like for like, eg another Maillard? Or can any make go in as a replacement?

Many thanks for any help offered

70sSanO

Is the 131mm an inside measurement between the dropouts? It is not an outside measurement, or an axle length?

131mm is an odd dropout OLD measurement, it is the exact axle measurement for a 5 speed 120mm OLD axle.

John

Pauls2805

The measurement was the gap between the dropouts - inside edge to inside edge. So what you’re saying is that it has always and should always be a 5 speed freewheel?

dedhed

spacing

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

steve sumner

it sounds like your frame has nominal 130 spacing which is wide enough
for 7-speeds. frames built for 5-speed are usually 120mm. you do not have
to replace a freewheel with the same brand but you do have to be sure of
the hub's threading. what brand is the hub? Maillard is French, if the hub is
also French there may be a problem

Pauls2805

I’ve no idea what brand the hub is. The wheel is a Raleigh wheel. It’s a bike I’ve bought 3rd hand so I don’t know the hub brand until I get the freewheel off.

joeruge

As you were previously advised, Sheldon Brown's website is a wealth of information for stuff like this... But a few cents from me.

Was the frame 'sprung' to some amount when you took the wheel out? Maybe 1/4" each side of the hub? Or do you notice maybe extra locknut on each side of the axle to take up the space?

In the old days, rear dropout spacing was 120mm. This accommodated 5 speed freewheels for about 40 years or so. Then maybe in the late 70's spacing moved up to 126mm. That only lasted for about 10 years before the bike industry moved to 130, and it's been there for road bikes ever since.

Since you're the third owner of this bike, it's possible that somewhere along the line someone put an older wheel (120mm OLD) they had laying around on the bike. This would not be a problem for a long chain stay steel bike to handle. It wouldn't be enough to 'cold set' the chain stays, so when you take the wheel out of the dropouts, the chain stays go back to their 130mm (in your case 131!) spacing.

I'd be curious to know the actual locknut spacing of your hub. Is it 120 or 130? Did a previous owner maybe add a locknut on each side to make an older hub fit into the newer frame dimension?

One thing to rejoice about; If you're not too interested in keeping a freewheel on the bike, with 130mm dropout spacing you're about 1/3 of the way to the modern era, though to get further, it will cost some bucks!

Pauls2805

What are my options? I did wonder about replacing the wheels. They’re showing age. Tyres are perished so definitely need changing. Wheels are 26 x 1 3/8. Do I replace the wheels? If so what with? And keep it freewheel or cassette? It’s such a minefield for me! ☺️

joeruge

Uh oh... I'm in way over my head on this... Do you think it was always 26" wheels? What kind of brakes do you have?

I don't know a thing about drop out spacing for frames that used 26" wheels, This piece of news might make everything I wrote earlier completely wrong. Mtbs were using 135mm when they started using disk brakes. I suppose back in the day, frames that used 26" wheels (which are still I think the most popular tire or tyre size on the planet) had 130 mm dropout spacing or even 120 or 110. Now I guess they're up to 148 "boost" (whatever that is?) But nowadays most better bikes in the States don't use 26" wheels any more.

I will shut up now and let people who know something untangle this.

JR

..

Iride01 

With 130 mm between the rear drops you can fit modern hub and cassette with 11 gears or maybe even more.

The question for me is what type frame do you have? Mountain bike? Road bike? Caliper brakes? If so, how big a wheel was it mad for? Not tire, wheel. What type riding do you want to do with this frame after you build it out?

Iride01 

26 x 1 3/8 could be one of several different wheel sizes. That could be an old Schwinn with a 597 mm BSD rim or a 590 mm rim.

If it says 26 x 1.375 on the tire, well that's entirely different and will be 599 mm rim BSD

What does the tiny print say on the tire that gives the ISO/ETRTO size?

Pauls2805

It’s a ladies road/hybrid frame. I’m rebuilding for my daughter to use as a casual bike. V-brakes were fitted when I bought it but have stripped it down. It even had mismatched cranks fitted!! I’m UK based. I think it’s a 17” frame but I’m only basing that on the number 17 sticker on the frame... I’ve found images of this bike online and they’ve all been 21 speed....

70sSanO

Here is what I would do...

I think the 5 speed threw everyone off. The 5 speed freewheel could have just been slapped on a 130mm OLD wheel. Measure the overall width of the from locknut to locknut (OLD). If it is 130mm, then get a 7 speed freewheel. It would be good to know what derailleur you have so you can fit the max size cog if you want. It is tough to find a good quality 7 speed freewheels anymore. If you can get your hands on a Sachs Aris from the 90's cheap enough, that would be a good choice.

If you are going to get a new crankset, Measure the width of the bottom bracket shell and buy one to fit with the bottom bracket. Square taper cranks are usually cheaper and pretty bulletproof.

For V-brakes brakes, Tektro makes good less expensive ones.

John

fietsbob

if they adjusted the wheel dish for accommodation of the narrower 5 speed freewheel ..

& now you have it rebuilt with a 6/7 speed the wheel truing dish needs to be sorted out again..

Iride01 

You might consider a wheel with a IGH hub. For a casual bike, those will be trouble free for a long time. You need to nail down the exact rim size for the wheel. Though maybe the v-brakes or cantilevers you put back on it will have enough adjustment for various diameters it might be. I don't know though, never use anything but disc, caliper and coaster brakes myself.

But having 130 mm between the dropouts you should be able to make most anything out of it. Though some bikes do have a wider dropout spacing.

Pauls2805

hi, sorry for the delay. Its a road/hybrid frame (ladies). V-Brakes. Theres a sticker with number 17 on the frame so im guessing ita a 17" frame but i am no expert. There wasnt a lot of info available when i bought it via gumtree.

It is called a Ventura Avening i believe - blue in colour.

this wheel be used for road riding. my daughter will use it to get around on. not for racing or hard riding, nothing off road either

dedhed

As he said it's off a Raleigh it's most likely a 590 EA3 wheel.

dedhed

Look kind of like this? probably originally 700 wheels

Pauls2805

Yes that’s it!

ill try and get a photo of the rear wheel tomorrow

Iride01 

Some rims have the BSD and internal width at the bead seat stamped on them. Some don't. Always worth a look. However if the tire is on it, it'll have the ISO size or quasi-ISO size somewhere on it. Usually it's stamped or embossed in the tiny print on the sidewall similar in size or smaller than how they list the recomended tire pressure.

Knowing that you can be reasonably sure what to look for if you do want new wheels. But a 130 mm between the dropouts will give you a lot of choice for hubs and number of gears.

Pauls2805

So I’ve had a look.

The wheel is Raleigh 18-590 (26x1 3/8”)
The tyre is 26x1 3/8” then 37-590 650x35A
its made in Sri Lanka

the total Axle length is around 160mm
the distance between nuts If I’ve measured correctly is around 130mm

so going back to my questions, what size wheel would I need that can accommodate a 7 speed freewheel or cassette. If I can be pointed in the direction of something that’s good and reasonably priced?

Iride01 

Wheels are a combination of parts. You need to find one that says it will fit a 130 mm drop out spacing. That can be anything from a 1 speed to a 11 speed on the rear. Not certain if 12 speed casettes fit on bikes with 130 mm rear spacing. Never had to check.

You can also go with an internal gear hub and wheel combination. Just depends on what you want. There is a lot of available options for wheels with 130 mm drop out spacing.

You just need to decide what you want. 1 gear coaster brake? five to seven speed freewheel? eight to eleven speed freehub? An IGH something or other?

What do you want?

Apparently you know the old rim is 590 BSD and has an internal width of 18 mm. So that is a safe rim size to stay with unless you want to go super wide with tires. But then you have to figure out how big will fit in the frame. Not easy for inexperienced persons to tell. Or even easy for experienced to describe to someone how to tell.

And you know what the drop out spacing is. So look or ask for a wheel that has a rim with 590 mm BSD and a hub that fits between 130 mm drops. And also has whatever type hub you want and number of gears you want.

Generally, more gears more money, not just for wheel, but for shifters and other stuff you'll have to get.

I know you said seven gear. Just not sure why you want to stay with 7 if you only have a frame and wheels that apparently need replacing.

Homebrew01

Do you have "Indexed" gearing, or "Friction" gearing ?

Indexed: The shifter has a "Click" for each gear in the rear, so you just shift as many "clicks" as you want.

Friction: No Clicks, you find each gear by feel & practice.

If it's friction, then changing the # of gears is not a big deal. You may be able to replace just the freewheel, assuming you have a freewheel, not a cassette.
If it's indexed, then the shifter & rear derailleur need to match the # of gears, and be of the same brand, to be compatible.

Once you have 10 posts, you can post pictures. It would be helpful to see the freewheel/cassette close up, with the wheel off the bike. Shift lever & derailleur too.