Indycasa

Hello,

I want to repare a peugeot tube special carbonite 103. The problem is that the bottom bracket is broken. How can I tell whether I need to have a french/swiss/english bottom bracket?

bertinjim 

Indycasa-

That depends on whether the crankset is cottered or cotterless and if it is cotterless which brand it is and whether it has external stampings identifying the threading. Can you be more specific?

Indycasa

The crankset is cotterless. And the brand is Peugeot. Furthermore the only stampings I can find on the bottom bracket is: 121 ->

Is there anything more you need to know?

dddd

The next things would be to determine: 1) what crankset and bottom bracket spindle taper you have if you'll be using the same crankset with the new bottom bracket. I believe the Peugeot crankarms were made by Stronglight, probably right close to ISO taper for an early-80's bike.

And 2) do you have an old English bottom bracket laying around, I would test-fit that to the bottom bracket threading first.

Determine which direction that the right-side fixed cup turns to remove.

What actually broke, the spindle?

alcjphil

Important information to know. Saying that something is "broken" without further information will just lead to people making guesses that might or might not be helpful. Pictures are helpful once the OP has enough posts to add them

alcjphil

In all probability, the crank was made by another company and had the Peugeot brand name added, very common practice many years ago for big companies ordering components by the tens of thousands.

Indycasa

unfortunately I do not have an old english bottom bracket laying around. This is the first time I am restoring a bike. (so if I ask a silly question you know why).

No the spindle is totally fine. the left side cup broke when I tried to remove it.

Indycasa

This stamping is placed on the spindle

gaucho777 

Do you have a known English freewheel or hub? The bottom bracket cups could be tested on a freewheel or a hub can be threaded into the non-drive-side (left) bottom bracket. Note that English hubs and BBs both have same dimensions and threading. But French & even Swiss threading date also possibilities with Peugeots.

Curious how the left side cup broke. They can get stripped or cross-threaded but it’s not easy to break a bottom bracket cup.

For further reading:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/velos.html

Chombi1 

Stronglight made a lot of cranksets for Peugeot with the Peugeot branding on it. Solida also supplied cranksets to Peugeot but I don't think they branded them as Peugeot cranksets like Stronlight did.

dedhed

Look for any markings on the cups.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...m-bracket.html

Cycle Tourist

Yup. Stronglight made most of the "Peugeot" bottom brackets. I sure would like a look at the broken cup. I've never seen one. Cross threaded,..yes.
The bottom bracket is almost assuredly wider than most so measure carefully before ordering anything. There not terribly expensive so I'd order one with English threading and, If it doesn't easily screw in, move to the next most common threading which is Italian I think. Someone here will certainly correct me if I'm wrong. I love the look of those old Stronglights. Your working on the most troublesome part of your Peugeot so take heart. Once you get past this, things should get easier. I like old Peugeots and think the effort is worthwhile but they are a handful normally. I have run into a few that are all English thread but it's a little rare. Good luck and send pictures whenever you can.

Indycasa

Okay, I looked at it again. actually only the lockring broke. Furthermore I cannot find the brand on the crankarms Only that it's made in France . And on the pedals that they are Lyotard 136 R.
If only the lockring broke, is it possible to only replace the lockring? And if I do this does it matter whether the BB is french/swiss/english?

I want to upload some photos, but I haven't post 10 times. So it is still not possible for me

dedhed

Yes you can replace only the lock ring but the correct threading is still required

dddd

The lockring and left cup will be either English or metric-thread, and right-hand threaded.
But, over such a short span of say ~four threads, either would likely fit and turn smoothly. I would try a common English lockring and if it tightens up with a normal feel to it (not too mushy) then I say you're good. The cup is very likely harder metal than the ring, so there is VERY little chance of damaging it's threads.

I have seen a fixed cup broken, but from a department store bike and the cup partially pulled apart under the tightening loads along the base of the threads.
Seems that Huffy, Mongoose and a couple of other big-box store brands (NOT Schwinn though) have hit some new lows over the past decade with respect to the grade of cheese used in the manufacture of their bottom brackets. Unfortunately also they don't seem to be able to harden cheese quite the way that steel is normally hardened(?).
Then there's this:

JohnDThompson 

Yes, and yes. The lockring thread has to match the thread on the cup, which has to match the thread in the bottom bracket shell.

Are there any markings on the cups? E.g. "1.37 x 24" would indicate English thread; "35 x 1" could be either French or Swiss. Other, more arcane marking are also possible (although less likely for a 1980s vintage bike). Sometimes the knurling pattern on the lockring can indicate thread spec as well:


Source: Sutherland's 4th Edition

dmark 

I have a 82 Peugeot P8 (carbolite) disassembled and I believe it is English BB threads since I am able to thread the nds lockring on an English type threaded freewheel.
Also Peugeot branded Stronglight crand and BB and the spindle has the same markings; Suntour Seven derailleurs.

dddd

As I mentioned above, with only a few threads in a row, Swiss/English/French lockrings may all work interchangeably.

It's the thread pitch difference that prevents English cups from threading into a Swiss or French (left side) bottom bracket, not the diameter (which is really close between English and metric).
I've even used an English BB in a Swiss-threaded Peugeot frame (though after a few turns in I had to use force and a back-and-forth action for the alloy cups to move inward as the thread pitch started to cause increasing interference).

dmark 

Yup.
I tried the cups in an old Fuji and a couple of turns was all. With Suntour and Dia Compe I thought they might have gone
English that early.

Sorin

Hello guys,
I try to put back on roads my PA10L and i have 1 pcs left to remove - fixed cup from bottom bracket. I have try to rotate CCW , and is not moving. I was doing in the wrong direction ? is CW ? Put some WD40 , also heated a liitle...not working . I dont have a propper tool also , just a french adjustable key. Any special tool that i need or any tips to try remove it? Thank you verry much.

JohnDThompson 

Are there any markings on the cups? Sometimes thread spec is explicitly marked, other times in an arcane manner.

Sorin

I have 1 ring ,8 sides, no markings , stronglight cottered cranks. Diameter of the ring is like 37.68 ..so idk if i will find any special tool.

Reynolds 531 

Best thing is take advantage of the Velo Orange sale right now. If you just replace the lockring, then certainly the bearings will be rough or anything else. Just modernize the whole thing for a good price, and never think about it again.

https://velo-orange.com/collections/...e-alloy-cups-1

Sorin

I appreciate your imput, but i have cottered and not square type cranks . Upgrade everything means change everything and loose identity of this bike. Is not what i intented to do atm. Regards,

rustystrings61 

Here is probably your best bet to remove the fixed cup - https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

Scroll down to where the late St. Sheldon describes fixed-cup tools. I have successfully used this method on my old Gitane and a Jeunet 630 and it DOES work.