RiddleOfSteel

Thanks!

I'm curious to see as well. Since I've ridden a few early-ish Specializeds, I think this one will feel pretty sharp in the steering and handling department, yet incredibly solid and stable.

The first year of the Trek 660s was 1984. They are certainly stellar riders and worthy of being built up, but I understand if it doesn't fit you. You ride a 62cm or something?

mhespenheide 

In classic geometry with a horizontal top tube, I'm a 62-64 for the seat tube, 59-59.5 for the top tube (+/- depending on the seat tube angle).

My classic ride at the moment is an '87 Bianchi, 63x59.5 with a 72STA; that fits nicely. The Trek, 60x58 with a 74STA actually works out to have about the same reach. With a technomic or other riser stem, I'd have about the same position. I'm just indecisive about building up the Trek period-correct, neo-retro, or converted to 650b. So it stays on hold.

rseeker

I saw American Flyers for the first time a couple days ago. Then a couple hours ago I was wondering what the bikes were, and Wikipedia told me. Then I saw this thread. The coincidence is freaking me out a little...

Congratulations on your find, it looks like a winner. I hope you enjoy it.

Tentative plans have me going to see 4014 on its southern tour, in February I think, in New Orleans or thereabouts.

RiddleOfSteel

It's good you know your measurements--it helps a lot in the acquire/sell bike arena...or self control arena. My frame size range is 63-66cm (CTT) with a top tube length of anything 57-60cm (CTC) if given/"normalized" to a 73° seat tube angle. I'm selling a lovely Paramount frame that is a 62cm CTT and that simply doesn't allow me to get a good looking bike while also being in the comfort range. Well, unless I don't do classic drop bars. It's about proportion with me and I don't want a gawky looking bike, trying to compensate for a more extreme saddle to brake hoods drop/distance. Interestingly, a 66cm bike will have its top tube hit my inner thighs when rocking the bike out of the saddle when climbing or accelerating. It's actually a little bit limiting. 63-64cm frames have their top tubes obviously a little bit lower, and that's the difference. All the times I think about having or building a custom frame for whatever reason(s), and then I go back to the reality, more and more, that I'm riding the bikes that fit me well already. That's pretty cool!

RiddleOfSteel

Well, welcome to the thread! There have been a number of early Allez threads, but with this frameset being as well-kept as it has been while also being very large/tall (the tallest frame they ever offered), it very much needed documentation. And this not so much for personal adulation or gratification, but for current and future people who view this thread and these photos. I want people to know what the frame looks like at the 63.5cm height, with wheels and tires that ape the original. The proportion, the possibilities for other people if they come across one, etc. As a guy that rides frames this large, there aren't many photos or records (in catalogs or otherwise) of what such frames/bikes looked like. I know I will be forgotten in due time, but maybe these images will live on semi-eternally for people to reference and know, perhaps keeping those who made the frames and the components from being completely forgotten.

So that got a bit existential (which I am fine with!). Next post is more progress!

RiddleOfSteel

Wheels Complete!

Dingy Hallway Photo Booth 5000 at your service, as always (hey, I pay for it! )

With some of these angles, I want to capture the darkness of these TB14 rims as best as possible. Even in indoor lighting!


Subtle brushing looks very nice.


A 12-21 7-speed Dura-Ace freewheel will provide extremely Seattle-friendly gearing.....

RiddleOfSteel

Well, I wasn't trying to up the 'purity' of this build any more than it was (ok, it's newer Superbe Pro, but you get it..), but I stopped by Recycled Cycles after selling another bike (my '90 Cannondale ST400, which I forgot how well that thing just glides over the road) to a new, happy owner (warms my heart!) looking for another vintage saddle for either this bike or my Trek 716 which is for sale. The saddle you see in these photos is on the Trek because it's by far the best looking saddle I have for that period/original build and, I can buy a lot of vintage saddles with the quick(er)/easier sale of a great looking vintage bike.

Anyway, I saunter around to the handlebars and stems section and, shoot, there are several vintage Specialized road handlebars and one of them is attached to a 100mm Specialized stem... I am now the owner of a 42cm (CTC) pair of Specialized handlebar and stem for a very friendly price. They are all cleaned up and de-adhesive'd. Polished and in great shape.




I also finally received my Veloflex tires! Veloflex Master (aka tan wall) 700x23mm. They look fantastic! They were also a pain in the butt to mount because they were so new and un-stretched. With the 23mm wide TB14 rims, there is essentially no "light-bulb" shape, at least at 60 psi (while I give the tires and tubes and rims some time to get to know each other...and see if I pinched a tube when trying to get the tires on. So far so good).

Needless to say, the entire wheelset looks great. You'll notice that I have the brake cables undone. The Cinelli bar and stem will be coming off today so as to to make way for the Specialized bar and stem. The Cinelli pieces will be likely destined for a bike to sell, and I have just the one in mind.

BFisher

Coming along nicely!

BradH

You'll like riding this one. My '85 Allez SE didn't have as nice of paint so I ended up having it powder coated a deep metallic red. Built it up with a combination of 8/9/10 speed DA stuff and a Specialized branded Sugino crankset. Easily one of my favorite rides.

RiddleOfSteel

Thank you!

RiddleOfSteel

Beautiful build and gorgeous color! Thank you for the encouragement--the bike inches ever closer to completion!

RiddleOfSteel

I had a busy afternoon and relaxed into the evening, but was able to get a bit more done tonight. Number one on the agenda was the bar/stem swap, which went easily enough. The second order of business was to re-cable both brake levers. The cables and housings I used originally juuuust reached front and rear. With a wider bar that was "squared off" at the ramps/tops bend, as opposed to the gentle curve of the narrower Cinelli Criterium bars, I knew they wouldn't reach and had to pick up and cut to fit a suitable solution. That's completed, and I now just need to center the front caliper and cap both cables equally.

Mr. 66 and I made a deal for the Benotto tape (among other bike items) and I wrapped the bars with it. Slippery stuff and a little on the shorter-in-length side (I do have wide bars), but it wrapped easily enough. Took two tries to get the length correct, and a third effort to redo it all so that the end caps could be wrapped over. It fits the look, even if it violates my normal standards for bar tape. At the end of the day, it looks the part and looks at home well enough. What doesn't look at home--which I suspected--is the stand-in Prologo saddle. I'll put the other one in upon completion for photos.

So this is what it looks like at the end of the day today. The chain is on (a SRAM 8-speed unit that I had laying around) and it is a good length. Now whenever I roll it, the freewheel ticks. Slowly coming alive!

Currently, as photographed, the bike weighs 22.3 lb. She'll bump up to just below 23 lb with pedals and a different saddle. No super lightweight by race standards, but plenty light for me.


Benotto tape finished with black tape. I tried white and it looked a bit blah. The black ties into the brake lever hoods and saddle. Drive side cello tape played along with the wrapping. Non-drive side cello tape didn't feel like playing ball around the brake lever.

RiddleOfSteel

More to come tomorrow, including a ride report!

mikemowbz

Wow. I like this a lot.

Especially with the Spesh bits and Suntour build. And the Veloflex!

Came together very nicely.

RiddleOfSteel

Thanks! More pictures to follow!

RiddleOfSteel

The Allez SE Era Begins!

Ok, everyone, we have photos in the actual sunlight, and it's, to me, a stunner!



Specialized 100mm stem holds a 26.0 x 42cm (CTC) Specialized Model I handlebar. The Benotto tape holds well. I still need to get cycling gloves to complete my own look as well as (more importantly) save myself from the lack of padding over a many miles ride.


The paint is wet, I still can't believe it!


My favorite Allez script/font.


Superbe Pro brakes with new-era Shimano-type pads perform well.

RiddleOfSteel

This Velo-branded saddle of unknown model name is pretty comfortable, and very importantly, fits the look of the era. I've looked high and low for other saddles and come up empty. I did try a Selle Italia Turbo reissue a couple of years ago and found it decidedly uncomfortable, unfortunately. So it goes!



Some other stars of the show.


This rear derailleur makes easy work of the 12-21 freewheel. I'd like to get a freewheel that runs to 24T or 26T preferably as that would make it more usable for all-around biking (because this thing is meant to be ridden), but I'll take a 21T 7-speed low gear just to ride it!


H Plus Son TB14 in Hard Anodized grey, at your service.

RiddleOfSteel

Whatever the tubing is, it's good, but not, shall we say....incredibly light...



Still, it's advertised on the frame and fork like all high-end tubesets, so it must be good, right?


These shift levers may not be Superbe Pro, but they're the exact same shape, shine incredibly well, and work phenomenally. The indexing click and feel is unique and without caveat. Perfect shifts are executed without thought. The left shift lever is micro-ratchet on the pull back and retro-friction on the push forward. Position is held in almost index fashion, perfect for those, like me, who put plenty of power into the front pedals and wish not for the FD to slip down to the small ring under frame flex.

RiddleOfSteel

Ride Report

As mentioned previously, this baby isn't a flyweight. At 23.0 lbs on the money fully dressed (bottle cages and pedals), she won't win any weight weenie contests, but she will be a solid and stable partner out on the road, an instant friend who won't betray.

As I suspected--with experience with a few early-era Specialized models (1988 Sirrus and 1992 Carbon Epic)--this 1985 Allez SE has impeccable manners. It seems to me that to call early Specialized's "conservative" would be improper. A bike that operates "within itself" or without issue or misstep is not by definition conservative. I would say a more apt description would be that it is measured, conscientious, and precise. It does not put a foot (or wheel) wrong. There is no funny business or quirk, vice, or irregularity. It is a bike that is extremely well-designed and refined. A willing partner out of the saddle when at slower speeds, it is noticeably more eager when doing so at higher speeds, in the big chain ring. Turns are predictable and 'falling into' a corner sees the bike take a natural, neutral line--no propensity to dive into a sharper turn, nor does it "high line" and take a wider arc.

The frame is quite strong, as are the wheels. The tires impart the overall springiness as well as the character of the frame. This is a great feeling as it definitely feels like it's communicating back to you. I am less strong than I was two or so months earlier due to injury and the resulting loss of power and endurance, and the strength of this frame tells me that as I regain my strength, that it will respond with enthusiasm to increased efforts. Like my Davidson Impulse, the more I lean into it, the more I get out of it. The Impulse will light up an out-of-saddle hill climb or acceleration effort, but the Allez won't be a slouch. The Impulse is a strong frame, and I love it. The Allez, like the Sirrus I rode before it, you could go to war with and it would not break.

I will need more miles with this, and will likely install another 12-21T freewheel on it--this time a SunTour branded unit (with a great, classic sound!)--just to increase the 'purity' of the build further. But only if it shifts as well or close. Who knows how my experience will evolve over time, but if my knee/leg is willing, I will have my chance sooner rather than later.

The strength, feeling, and feedback of this bike is one that I really appreciate experiencing. Maybe I was hoping for it, especially in light of my Schwinn Prologue, which is so lithe and sinuous in nature. The Allez SE is every bit as robust as its weight indicates, and for that I am thankful. It's certainly a man-and-machine back-and-forth relationship that I can get into.

merziac

Love it.

Great ride report Dan, as expected from your very well qualified expertise and the subject at hand, no surprise on any front.

As I've said before, the braintrust of The Big S was firing on all cylinders with full authority at this time, taking no prisoners.

Sinyard at the helm, Merz, DiNucci, Neenan and a host of others leaving their mark on all they touched, again with full authority.

Great products at prices that were more attainable than many others, excellent value and performance from the best in the business.

RiddleOfSteel

Thank you! I would certainly agree with you on everyone being at the top of their game at this time. The bike is extremely competent, and doesn't have to explain itself at all. Pretty sweet if you ask me. This one is going to be in the stable for a while at least.

mhespenheide 

Well, thank you for that -- now I don't need to worry about refinishing a Specialized Allez since you've done a good enough job that I can't really imagine improving on it.

Do I remember correctly that the Superbe Pro RD was even more limited than most short cage rear derailleurs? Perhaps a 26T maximum?



Bring it down to Eroica CA at some point!

merziac

Yessir, those guys define "top of the game", the objective was clear and they brought the exact right thing straight to the table, done.

RiddleOfSteel

Depends on the year and spec of Allez. There's plenty of room for refinishing mine into 100% factory spec, but I'm not going to do that obviously. The indexing works much to well and of course, if I don't have to spend more money on it, I'm a happy camper. I really like it the way it is...ok, a 24T or 26T low cog would be great. And as to the Superbe Pro RD's capacity, 26T sounds about right, but 7400-era Shimano Dura-Ace also was spec'd to employ a max cog of 26T. I can't imagine Campgnolo being much, if any, different. I've made a first/second generation Superbe RD take a 28T cog, but it was not the biggest fan of it. Knowing that, I only selected that gear with gentle pedaling and shift lever action. I think this Accushift Plus era of Superbe Pro could swing a 28T no problem. I did the same with my 7400 Dura-Ace RD, but it refused to shift well both up and down.

leaping_gnome

Thank you, ROS, for the coverage of your SE build. I share your enthusiasm for these Allez and still seek the DiNucci era Allez Pro to call my own!

Jim