masi61

I have a lovely Wittson titanium road disc “Illuminati” frame that takes mechanical (cable actuated) shifting. The frame is Lithuanian and I purchased it in an eBay sale from the framebuilder.

It comes with a cable liner running the length length of the frame from an orifice in the headtube, under 2 little guides on the interior of the bottom bracket and out the rear dropout. He leaves some of the liner hanging out of both ends. He provides 2 ferrules with a little bit of liner sticking out. I presumes they were to insert into the head tube openings. I got no instructions on how to run the internal cabling. He did answer a few of my questions early on, but this latest question I have not received an answer to.

It is: how to run the housing loop out the Paragon dropout for the rear derailleur?

Here is a picture: (thanks for any help)

masi61

The opening for the rear cable liner is pretty small. I don’t just want to butt the rear housing loop up against that washer or whatever it is. I was hoping that the opening in the dropout would be for a ferrule for a positive connection. Right now I’m stumped. I’m sure that Mr. Vitas Zukauskas of Wittson will get back with me eventually but in the meantime I thought I would ask the question here on the framebuilders forum since these are Made In USA titanium dropouts.

Andrew R Stewart 

I suspect that the cable guide liners are there only to ease installing a cable and not to really do much more. Some will say they might reduce friction but the liners will really only be complete at the BB corners in cable routing. Elsewhere the liner will be pushed in the tube and/or cut down flush with the frame port.

If I am correct, when replacing the cables in the future will take some care to not loose the run through the frame, as in don't just pull the inner cables out without re establishing a liner through the frame first. Andy

dsaul

Those dropouts were made in the USA, but that hole was made by the builder. It looks like a Di2 sized port, but it should work fine with a cable housing ferrule butted against it. There are shifter cable ferrules(Jagwire or SRAM?) that have a plastic extension that sticks out the end and would fit in that hole. In any event, the cable will keep the housing centered on the hole.

masi61

They provided me with 2 shift cable ferrules that have that plastic extension on it. I don't really like that the ferule isn't going to lock into the socket more positively. Also, I'm still confused about the installation procedure of fitting the derailleur cable with that liner there.

Do I just push then cable in through the liner, then once the inner cable is in place, remove the liner?

I'm still confused here. Thanks for your interest in my original query however.

masi61

thanks for the reply. I'm still confused though. I can see where I'll most likely need to take this one into the LBS mechanic for a consultation.

wsteve464

My solution is if the id of the hole the cable comes out of is 1/4" buy a closed end stainless steel bottle boss. Drill out the internal threads of the boss to near the bottom to fit the cable housing, drill a small hole for the cable to go through the closed end and insert into the chainstay

masi61

this is interesting. Where can I buy a stainless steel bottle boss?

That is a pretty small hole. I think I have some stepped ferules around somewhere that I may try. I don't think the stepped part is quite that small in diameter though.

Andrew R Stewart 

https://www.paragonmachineworks.com/...ttle-boss.html Andy

masi61

Thank you! I have no framebuilding experience and if I went with something like that it would need to be just held in place by the tension of the cable or maybe it could be epoxied in place?

dsaul

I see absolutely no benefit to adding a bottle boss to this situation. There is functionally no difference between butting a cable ferrule against that hole in the dropout or putting that ferrule in a bored out bottle boss and butting that against the hole. The cable tension holds them in place in both cases and the bottle boss just adds an unnecessary piece.

The bottle boss solution is only applicable if there is a hole in the frame with no stop for the cable housing. (the cable housing goes through the hole with nothing to stop it)

wsteve464

Nova 99 cents https://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle...TTLE-BOSS.html

wsteve464

Which is why I said if the hole is 1/4 inch id. I am unable to tell from the pick op posted. But if it is Di2 compatible there probably won't be a step for the cable housing to butt up against.

Not quite as clean as the great bottle boss idea you could find a small washer the housing won't fit through and butt it up to the hole, housing/cable tension will keep it in place

unterhausen

the suggestion of the bottle boss is to make a stopped ferrule if the hole is so big that housing will go right into the hole. I have to say that I'm totally confused about what the builder's intent was here. But I would try to find out before doing anything radical.

masi61

Yes, finding out the builder's intent is what I have been trying to do. This frame is very well crafted. I have sent him several messages (one a question through eBay and another through email on his Facebook page) and thus far he has not gotten back to me.

I would like to pull that housing liner out of the hole after I run a stainless steel cable through the frame. Then I will check and see if one of the little ferules (provided) with the little tubing length that sticks out will anchor the housing loop a little better.

I will post an update with a few more pictures and to report back about anything I hear back from Wittson.

PS: I purchased a 2nd one of these Wittson Illuminati titanium disc frames from eBay recently because I couldn't resist the deal (the frame without the fork started at like 1,000 euros, so like ~$1,400 without the fork). I had to purchase the Columbus Futura fork separately.

mikeread

If it is deep enough and wide enough, could you just drill out the bush in the drop out to form a counterbore for the cable ferrule to locate into. Obviously do not go all the way through, just enough to locate the ferrule securely. 3mm would be enough.

You can't get simpler than that.

If you do try this make sure you put a tube or something over your drill bit to stop it drawing itself right through. And use a good quality, brand new drill bit.

masi61

The builder emailed me back.
He says the Teflon liner is supposed to remain on the frame and be trimmed to fit. He said that the 2 nose pieces provided are for inserting ito the headtube.

I got no specific direction about which which kind of ferrule to use for the rear derailleur loop.

masi61

Well I removed the derailleur hanger which then allowed me to pop out the pictured flanged ferrule which sticks into the chainstay.

I measured the internal diameter of the stooped hole (with a hole to run the inner wire) @ 4.4mm.

I had a hard time fitting 4mm compressionless housing in there (without a ferrule). I will try some of my other compressionless derailleur housing. I’m hoping I don’t have to shave off some of the plastic coating in order to get it to fit.